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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 1, 2010 20:57:42 GMT -8
Considering there are covers showing Superman hovering over the planet? I'm not sure about a reduction to "Leaping Tall Buildings" levels, although given the name of the story arc is "Grounded" you might not be wrong. "Man of Steel" Levels might be more likely.
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Post by Anders on Jun 1, 2010 22:01:08 GMT -8
Or the cover could be, y'know, symbolic. It's been known to happen.
Regarding the rumour, why anyone who would want to fall back in love with humanity would choose to travel America is beyond me. (And I'm only half joking about that.)
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Post by jbhelfrich on Jun 2, 2010 18:11:01 GMT -8
Maybe he's trying to remember why he's needed, not why he'd want to.
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 2, 2010 18:28:23 GMT -8
2009 will see Marvel heroes acting like heroes again: 90 percent. It looks like the whole point of this Dark Reign thing is to jumpstart the concept of "heroism" once more and have the Avengers acting like Earth's Mightiest Heroes and not a warring group of revolutionaries versus government-sponsored sociopaths. Depending on how Dark Reign is handled, it could actually be a hell of a good story. Speedball will return: 90 percent. Jesse has pointed out elsewhere that the current setup has so completely deconstructed the ridiculous "Penance" thing that it's inevitable that the current storyline will end with him returning to his old self, with a bit of a grimmer outlook but not so whiny, leading to ... Moonstone gets punched through a cliff and crippled: 50 percent. Admit it, it would be cool, but there's a good chance she's a Dark Avenger. Songbird-led Thunderbolts at the forefront of the anti-Norman revolution: 90 percent. Whether they'll have their own book is debateable, but that moment in the latest issue really nails it: when Songbird remembers how good it felt to be a real hero, even when they were faking it, that brief time when everyone loved them, the Avengers were gone and they were doing the Right Thing. It was all a scam, but let's face it, their current run of "heroism" is actually far darker than anything Zemo ever did. And this time ... this time they could get it right ... Norman Osborn dies at the end of all this: 50 percent. I find it rather likely, but I can also see them wanting to keep him around. But with all this buildup, and his high prominence as a Spider-villain, it really needs a hell of a payoff in the end. Captain America returns in 2009: I think they're going to hold off on that a bit, but I'll still put it at 30 percent. Captain America returns in 2010: 69 percent Cap returns later than that: 1 percent. Comic book historians, break it down for me -- what's the longest that a major, lead character of a book has remained "dead"? Hal Jordan might actually be the winner there, but let's face it -- even when he wasn't GL, how long was he out of action? The gap between Final Night and Day of Judgment was something like two years, and that's the longest major-hero-out-of-action gap I can think of in modern times. Superman was dead for around 18 months. Spider-Man, Iron Man, Batman, Iron Man and all the rest of the marquee heroes have never actually been "dead" for any significant length of time I can recall. ("Significant" meaning six months or more. Tony's faked it once or twice, but I don't think it even stuck for a month from the reader's point of view. We will for these purposes consider Captain Mar-Vell to be an extraordinarily unique case, who -- among other things -- actually had his book cancelled after his death, and died on-panel in a WHOLE lot more definitive way than just about any superhero before or since. The Cosmic Cube is just being referenced a little too often. The only reason I can think of that it might NOT be the way Cap comes back is that this is the route they're already taking in Avengers/Invaders -- in which the entire world's desire to see Cap alive again brings him back. But then again, Marvel has never been subtle. All the recent talk in this thread got me reading the start again, and I have to admit, it's kind of amusing seeing just how much I managed to completely get wrong. |
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 2, 2010 18:32:59 GMT -8
A few others: Karla Sofen is secretly taking orders over the phone from: Norman Osborn: 10 percent. Not bloodly likely at all. Also, note that Osborn wanted Songbird taken out with lethal force but they're giving up an easy chance to shoot Robbie in the head. Helmut Zemo: 70 percent. Nobody ever stays dead. And there's no way, NO WAY, Baron Helmut Zemo pulls off the greatest scam in modern history and lets the Green Fuckin' Goblin take the credit. And Zemo is one of the very, very few people Karla would trust that way. Ironically enough. Somebody else: 20 percent. Maybe it's a big red herring, but I'll be amazed if it's anyone but Zemo. This is his kind of string-pulling; Karla is operating exactly the way she did when Zemo was in charge, and getting a known maverick and wild card like Robbie Baldwin out of the way is his kind of tactic. Doing it nonlethally is also in keeping with his most recent "dark antihero" approach. Norman's recent popularity is ultimately Peter Parker's fault: 50 percent. The whole world forgets they saw him as the Green Goblin on live TV just because of some good PR? Nah, not plausible. I don't think this is ultimately the plan of the current regime, but when everything goes down -- which I would expect to happen around the point of "ASM sales drop below 55,000" -- I'll bet my favorite Doctor Who shirt that Mephisto is involved in some way. Heh. And now we're at 53,000 and dropping and no sign of any OMD undoing. Mind you, as Kirk is fond of pointing out, every day Quesada comes to work is a day he extends the record for longest-serving EiC. Brevoort recently said that everyone involved expected it would take at least five years for the OMD chaos to settle down. Which I have to say is an incredibly optimistic thing, given the extremely long odds against Quesada still being in the big chair by then. And hey, DID we ever find out who Karla Sofen's Secret Boss was in the last days of pre-Dark Reign "Thunderbolts"? About the only thing that seemed certain was that it wasn't Norman Osborn, since some of the orders over the phone seemed to contradict Norman's wishes and orders, but given how poorly planned-out Dark Reign was, it probably WAS Norman and just nobody bothered to make it all work. |
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Post by jessebaker on Jun 2, 2010 19:42:44 GMT -8
Refresh my memory on this plot point?
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 2, 2010 19:59:47 GMT -8
A few others: Karla Sofen is secretly taking orders over the phone from: Norman Osborn: 10 percent. Not bloodly likely at all. Also, note that Osborn wanted Songbird taken out with lethal force but they're giving up an easy chance to shoot Robbie in the head. Helmut Zemo: 70 percent. Nobody ever stays dead. And there's no way, NO WAY, Baron Helmut Zemo pulls off the greatest scam in modern history and lets the Green Fuckin' Goblin take the credit. And Zemo is one of the very, very few people Karla would trust that way. Ironically enough. Somebody else: 20 percent. Maybe it's a big red herring, but I'll be amazed if it's anyone but Zemo. This is his kind of string-pulling; Karla is operating exactly the way she did when Zemo was in charge, and getting a known maverick and wild card like Robbie Baldwin out of the way is his kind of tactic. Doing it nonlethally is also in keeping with his most recent "dark antihero" approach. Norman's recent popularity is ultimately Peter Parker's fault: 50 percent. The whole world forgets they saw him as the Green Goblin on live TV just because of some good PR? Nah, not plausible. I don't think this is ultimately the plan of the current regime, but when everything goes down -- which I would expect to happen around the point of "ASM sales drop below 55,000" -- I'll bet my favorite Doctor Who shirt that Mephisto is involved in some way. Heh. And now we're at 53,000 and dropping and no sign of any OMD undoing. Mind you, as Kirk is fond of pointing out, every day Quesada comes to work is a day he extends the record for longest-serving EiC. Brevoort recently said that everyone involved expected it would take at least five years for the OMD chaos to settle down. Which I have to say is an incredibly optimistic thing, given the extremely long odds against Quesada still being in the big chair by then. And hey, DID we ever find out who Karla Sofen's Secret Boss was in the last days of pre-Dark Reign "Thunderbolts"? About the only thing that seemed certain was that it wasn't Norman Osborn, since some of the orders over the phone seemed to contradict Norman's wishes and orders, but given how poorly planned-out Dark Reign was, it probably WAS Norman and just nobody bothered to make it all work. For the record, it's me, not KIRK, who makes regular mention of JQ's record run. Now, in light of today's news that Quesada has been promoted to "Chief Creative Officer" - well, I can understand how many people might shout me down and say I was wrong, and you know? I might be. However, there's also the interpretation that this is a lateral move - not a vertical climb. Quesada now has official and tangible responsibility for all ongoing Marvel media projects - and with everything going on, if you don't think there's another "Elektra" or something like that godawful Avengers cartoon from the late 90s lurking about...well, bless you. But even if you don't think that, the point is that now Quesada has to network on a level he's never had to before and to deal with Hollywood egos and grudges, and from what I've seen, well, I think he's gonna step on some toes. Hard. |
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 3, 2010 8:45:27 GMT -8
Refresh my memory on this plot point? In T-Bolts 126 and 127, Moonstone was mopping up some problems in the Thunderbolts at the behest of Person or Persons Unknown to whom she was reporting over the phone. We never see who it was. Most primarily, she drugged Robbie and sent him off to the mental institution. It seemed very weird to me that when Norman is seen on-panel ordering Songbird's death, that they'd be using such nonlethal methods with Robbie instead of just killing him. However, I've come to conclude that it was supposed to be Norman giving the orders and there never was a big mystery. Though I did like my theory that Zemo was alive and trying to steal back the 'Bolts with Karla's help. |
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 3, 2010 19:23:57 GMT -8
Heh. And now we're at 53,000 and dropping and no sign of any OMD undoing. Mind you, as Kirk is fond of pointing out, every day Quesada comes to work is a day he extends the record for longest-serving EiC. Brevoort recently said that everyone involved expected it would take at least five years for the OMD chaos to settle down. Which I have to say is an incredibly optimistic thing, given the extremely long odds against Quesada still being in the big chair by then. And hey, DID we ever find out who Karla Sofen's Secret Boss was in the last days of pre-Dark Reign "Thunderbolts"? About the only thing that seemed certain was that it wasn't Norman Osborn, since some of the orders over the phone seemed to contradict Norman's wishes and orders, but given how poorly planned-out Dark Reign was, it probably WAS Norman and just nobody bothered to make it all work. For the record, it's me, not KIRK, who makes regular mention of JQ's record run. Now, in light of today's news that Quesada has been promoted to "Chief Creative Officer" - well, I can understand how many people might shout me down and say I was wrong, and you know? I might be. However, there's also the interpretation that this is a lateral move - not a vertical climb. Quesada now has official and tangible responsibility for all ongoing Marvel media projects - and with everything going on, if you don't think there's another "Elektra" or something like that godawful Avengers cartoon from the late 90s lurking about...well, bless you. But even if you don't think that, the point is that now Quesada has to network on a level he's never had to before and to deal with Hollywood egos and grudges, and from what I've seen, well, I think he's gonna step on some toes. Hard. Sorry about getting the credit wrong on the EIC record. Quesada just might overreach now that he has so much responsibility for the media stuff. Truth be told, Marvel movies were doing just fine with Quesada exactly where he was. But the next two years are going to determine Marvel's major entertainment future for the next decade. "Iron Man" set up everything nicely and made Marvel Films a major player, but if "Captain America" and/or "Thor" tank, it's going to cripple the effort pretty badly. And if "Avengers" tanks on top of that, it all goes down the tubes. Pretty much everything is at stake here. And for a guy whose primary response to criticism is to mock his opponents, he could be in for a rude awakening once he's in Hollywood. The wacky fun that was the Jemas And Quesada Comedy Hour is funny when it's 80,000 copies of Avengers at stake; it's a lot different with hundreds of millions on the line. As you say, though, the real threat isn't the big-ticket things going down; it's the possibility of many second-tier productions failing. Once you get past the Avengers Prime, you're in seriously dangerous second-stringer territory, and it's entirely possible that no amount of hype or talent could make "Ant-Man" a hit. I don't actually want Joe to fail here. Despite so many of his flaws as EiC in the later years, Quesada has still done a hell of a lot of good, starting with the Morrison era of X-Books. And hell, I even think he was sincere in his efforts to reach out to Alan Moore. But I have a feeling he's going to fall down very badly here. Sometimes I think the first thing any new EiC should do is have lunch on successive days with every prior EiC. No matter what you think of Bob Harras or Jim Shooter, they would have a hell of a lot of worthwhile insights. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 15, 2010 15:46:32 GMT -8
Sometimes I think the first thing any new EiC should do is have lunch on successive days with every prior EiC. No matter what you think of Bob Harras or Jim Shooter, they would have a hell of a lot of worthwhile insights. And that would work in a world where former EICs weren't competitors or looking to take the job back themselves. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 15, 2010 15:54:10 GMT -8
Oy, and looking for solicits from the upcoming "Three" arc of FF. I guess Hickman never read the comic during the DeFalco era (not that I blame him) but you figure someone would have told him this has been done before.
So just to conclude
Marvel 2010=Marvel 1995
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 15, 2010 19:08:05 GMT -8
Sometimes I think the first thing any new EiC should do is have lunch on successive days with every prior EiC. No matter what you think of Bob Harras or Jim Shooter, they would have a hell of a lot of worthwhile insights. And that would work in a world where former EICs weren't competitors or looking to take the job back themselves. Competitors I can understand, but is there any former EiC who thinks they have a prayer in hell of ever getting the job back? To be honest, the fate of former Marvel EiCs is so frequently, for lack of a better word, pathetic that this fact alone would be enough to scare most wiser heads away from the job. A look at the career paths of Tom DeFalco, Jim Shooter and Bob Harras would make most professionals consider going into car sales. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 15, 2010 19:45:40 GMT -8
Bob Harras I can't speak for - but Tom DeFalco has had a long run and there's no certainity he couldn't end up EIC at say, Archie. and Jim Shooter, like him or not, has a history of running comic franchises. Even if they go into the ground shortly thereafter.
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 24, 2010 15:57:06 GMT -8
OK, and Superman #700 cements it - we're going with JMS extremely heavy handed social commentary - we're talking "Dennis O'Neill Hard-Travelling Heroes" level. With a scene basically cribbed out of Civil War #1.
Not a good sign of things to come.
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 24, 2010 17:26:00 GMT -8
Normally I'd call that the dumbest single comics moment of the year, but as it happens, thanks to "Rise of Arsenal" #4, it's not even the dumbest comics moment of the week.
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