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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 25, 2009 4:21:40 GMT -8
Need to vent? Come on in and join along!
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The F-22 is dead? Well...fuck it. No. Seriously. A $200 million dollar space-fighter that costs more in a single minute of usage than the average American family spends in a goddamn year was always fucking doomed to failure, no matter how cool it looks. The War On Terror (whether or not you believe in it) is based largely on cost-effectiveness - Terrorists who can commit their acts using Radio Shack parts and some gun powder are being cost-effective, and this thing? So not. Actually, not to veer into nerd territory too much, but this is also pretty handily addressed in the Dark Knight - Batman ends up spending what? I figure about $300 million plus to catch the Joker, who again, seems to have off the shelf tech.
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Fucking Canadian Conservatives: with all the current crap going on with Atomic Energy, and one of these useless fucks goes out and says that maybe Canada should get out of making medical isotopes.
We own 70% of the North American market, and 30% of the global market. You know what you call something that owns 30% of the global market: KING.
So why do you want to shut it down? Don't like money? Canadian success is too much for you? Oh, right, you're a GODDAMN CONSERVATIVE ASSHOLE, who believes that government can't do anything right, and so any possible successes must be crushed in order to validate your useless and unrealistic worldview.
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Your turn, go.
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Post by Johann Chua on Jul 25, 2009 4:41:32 GMT -8
Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile made the most assholish remark possible about Cory Aquino last year. To wit: she must know who really killed her husband, because she was the Goddamn President. Never mind that as minister of defense in the Marcos regime, Enrile is one of the most likely suspects for the actual mastermind of the Ninoy Aquino assassination. What makes it worse? He makes his disappearing pre-paid cell phone loads a fucking national issue. Nice to know you have your priorities straight, Johnny.
Imelda Marcos's poor little rich bitch act is getting on my nerves as well. She claims she's desperately poor due to the mean old government sequestering all her (probably ill-gotten) assets, yet she can afford to attend high society parties in style. Just once, I'd like for one of the corruption/plunder charges against her to result in a conviction that sticks.
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 25, 2009 5:12:20 GMT -8
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This is about the American healthcare debate - fuck staying out of this one - you drag my goddamn country into your mess, you have no right to cry foul if someone from our side decides to take a baseball bat to your nuts.
First, to Obama and the so-called "liberals" (I say this because the American version of "liberalism" is barely centerism by most nominal standards) - look, this isn't fucking rocket science. Here is all, and I mean, *ALL* you need to say as your talking points.
-EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED INDUSTRIAL NATION HAS SOME FORM OF GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE
-They pay LESS than we do. LESS. Do you understand that? They pay less, and they get MORE. Fuck, how hard is that message to spread in the current economic environment?
-They also have things like higher average and median lifespans.
OK, so please, stop using Canada as your Sole "pro" case - seriously, do your goddamn homework.
Now, to conservative assholes:
1) Stop using the rare "horror story" from the Canadian healthcare system, as your flimsy justification, because trust me, not only are you people cherrypicking, you are doing it badly.
2) "Rationing Healthcare" - jesus, what the fuck do you think is going on right now? It's being rationed - just along the lines of rich/poor.
3) Apparently I was miseducated in my Catholic upbringing - apparently compassion and caring about your neighbour doesn't extend to healthcare. At least, that's what I get from you guys.
4) Please stop talking about Canada like we're a Darwinistic society - you guys practice social Darwinism on a level that is scary to the rest of the planet.
Also, to the Canadian lady who has been making all the Anti-Canadian Healthcare ads in the US. Yes, you - the one that is currently suing to the government to get her operation in the US covered - if by some chance you get your money, does that mean you'll apologize in a commercial? I think fucking not.
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Post by K-Box on Jul 25, 2009 10:30:54 GMT -8
"EVERY OTHER CIVILIZED INDUSTRIAL NATION HAS SOME FORM OF GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE"
I'm sorry, but anyone who uses this argument fundamentally misunderstands the American national character, because sales pitches like this are WHY we haven't embraced government health care.
America is, at heart, a nation of contrarians, whose entire history is based on doing exactly the opposite of what the rest of the world has told us is a good idea, and - until the Vietnam War, anyway - almost always getting rewarded by fate for doing so.
From the Puritans who settled this country and the colonists who broke away from the British Empire, pretty much every risk that America has taken has been deemed a bad idea by the UK and European countries, and based on the prevailing conventional wisdom of the day, they were right, but like Indiana Jones, we ultimately survived and succeeded even when we had no business doing so - as his character does in the movies, we FAILED UPWARDS - and that sent us a very clear message, which was Fuck Those Guys, We Should Always Do The Opposite Of What They Tell Us.
This is why soccer is still so derided in America - as Harry Shearer once said, the ads for the World Cup all say, "It's the sport the rest of the world plays," but THAT'S WHY WE HATE IT - and this is why, during the '80s, we couldn't even stand the prospect of the Japanese starting their own baseball leagues, because we wanted baseball to remain OUR OWN THING. Hell, this is one of the biggest reasons why WE COULDN'T EVEN BE PERSUADED TO ADOPT THE METRIC SYSTEM.
So, no, we shouldn't go with that sales pitch, because the more times that some danged foreigner starts telling us we should adopt a certain system, the more than even your average, relatively rational American will instinctively shy away from doing so, because as far as we're concerned, we're still frontiersmen, which basically makes all other nations Indian tribes by default, except that, instead of killing our people in raids, you're "assaulting" us by insisting that we change our lifestyle and beliefs, which we actually consider a worse crime.
Is this rational? No, but then, when has humanity as a whole ever been so?
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 25, 2009 10:58:01 GMT -8
and here I thought it had more to do with the desires of enterprise and capitalism being far more dominant in your culture.
Yes, and then you turn around and decide to give the rest of us smallpox for not having the good grace to leave the land you've invaded, using that metaphor.
And as far as changing your lifestyle and beliefs, well, that explains Dick Cheney, doesn't it? Because "the American way of life is non-negotiable" even when, in terms of costs in $$ and resources and lives, everyone would be better off if you TRIED some negotiation.
Not that it matters, because I firmly believe that some big changes in North American lifestyle are coming whether you deny them or not. I just hope that "American national character" can adapt without some kind of absolutely apocalyptic spasm, but judging by the evidence, I doubt it.
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Sidebar:
Why the fuck does anyone take Dick Cheney or Bill Kristol seriously on TV when they talk? They've been WRONG ABOUT EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN THING. If either of them said the sky was blue I would have a cabal of top scientists check that out for me because I just can't trust them.
You know who's political opinion I'd rather see on TV? I'd rather they drag in a homeless man who rants about how he's receiving telepathic messages for the cosmic-powered Koalas from the 902nd century warning him that the lesbian space vampires are about to invade from Venus.
That guy would have more credibility then Cheney or Kristol
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Post by K-Box on Jul 25, 2009 12:11:31 GMT -8
You're preaching to the choir on this one. And as for this ...
"and here I thought it had more to do with the desires of enterprise and capitalism being far more dominant in your culture."
... You're forgetting that the single most-read author in American history is Ayn Rand, who simultaneously claimed to be All About The Free Market, while at the same time championing the view that, if the market of customers wants something different from what the Great Men of Industry see fit to provide them, then THE MARKET ITSELF IS WRONG (see also: The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged).
We only want enterprise and capitalism as long as they do what WE want them to - otherwise, like free speech and freedom of religion, we believe that those freedoms should be revoked as soon as they start to apply to People Who Are Not Like Us.
As for Cheney and Kristol, the people who still support them are the people who literally CANNOT accept that their worldview has already been proven wrong, because if they ever DID accept it, they WOULD become suicide-bombers in retaliation against REALITY ITSELF. Remember, the Bush administration DENOUNCED its critics for being part of the "REALITY-based community," a term that the Bushies themselves used AS AN INSULT.
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Post by Anders on Jul 26, 2009 2:55:39 GMT -8
So, no, we shouldn't go with that sales pitch, because the more times that some danged foreigner starts telling us we should adopt a certain system, the more than even your average, relatively rational American will instinctively shy away from doing so, because as far as we're concerned, we're still frontiersmen, which basically makes all other nations Indian tribes by default, except that, instead of killing our people in raids, you're "assaulting" us by insisting that we change our lifestyle and beliefs, which we actually consider a worse crime. I think the explanation is more simple than this. It's just regular old national chauvinism. Kids in America (and yes, I'm getting this through my composite picture of US pop culture, US news, US books and so on) seem to be taught from a very young age that America is Special - the greatest nation, blessed by God, chosen for a special destiny beyond other, lesser nations. Not being American isn't just being different, it's being lesser. By definition, anything that comes from abroad is worse than what you already have simply because it's foreign. Not everyone thinks like this of course, but it is the overt position of nearly all public discourse in the US, meaning that for those who do believe it - which seems to be a large majority of the people - it is constantly reinforced to the point that questioning it is tantamount to public life suicide unless you're on some very odd fringe. I'm sure I don't need to point out that to most of the rest of the world, and all of the West, this type of position is insane. Sure, every nation has a dose of nationalism but when it rises to the level it is expressed in an average State of the Union adress it's way out on the fringe with the Neo-Nazis and revolutionary socialists in terms of public acceptance: you'll have some sympathizers, but the vast majority of the population will just think you're silly. (Of course, this is all helped along by the ridiculous high influence of conservative Christianity on US public life.) Bleh, I didn't mean for this to run so long. Anyway, my point is that the US national character is less frontiersman contrarianism and more plain ol' nationalism. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jul 26, 2009 4:40:34 GMT -8
Sure, every nation has a dose of nationalism but when it rises to the level it is expressed in an average State of the Union adress it's way out on the fringe with the Neo-Nazis and revolutionary socialists in terms of public acceptance I observe the following: 1) The only country where "liberal" is an insult is the US. 2) US liberals would be considered conservatives anywhere else. 3) In Germany, US conservatives would be on our FBI equivalent's watch list for anti-constitutional attitudes. Our Chancellor Merkel was a good friend of George W. Bush, and she doesn't get along with Obama. She doesn't seem to understand that her party, the CDU, has far more in common with the US's Dems than with the Reps. (Unless, and that is something that scares me, she herself has more in common with Bush than with her own party.) As far as I can tell, and you need to consider that US politics and policies get a lot of discussion on the message boards that I frequent (obviously), the current GOP leadership is pretty much the US equivalent of the NPD. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany The main difference being that the GOP gets respect in the US, while the NPD... well, I think you can guess how they're viewed here. |
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Post by jarddavis on Jul 27, 2009 10:40:39 GMT -8
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round....
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 27, 2009 18:47:57 GMT -8
I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round.... uh, Ok? |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 27, 2009 20:37:47 GMT -8
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Did anyone watch the entirety of Palin's exit speech? If so, was it less disjointed and batshit and somewhat hypocritical than the highlights would suggest? I'm being sincere here - I don't choose to believe anyone would exit the political stage on a such a strange set of notes - particularly given what we all suspect her future plans are.
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"The Daily Show" was above-average tonight to begin with, covering the Palin thing, but the icing on the cake was Jon performing the most perfect bait-and-switch I've ever seen in getting Bill Kristol to basically admit that because US Soldiers deserved and were getting the best medical care, that the government COULD run a first class healthcare system. It was beautiful to behold, and possibly one of Jon's finest moments this year.
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Post by jarddavis on Jul 31, 2009 10:35:53 GMT -8
Little bit of the old Walrus himself.
Anyone who doesn't think that America is Special, hasn't been paying attention.
No. Seriously. Forget the culture, forget the politics, forget the odd vague imperial notion or three...
You don't think England, France, Germany Japan, Russia, or China all got to where they are by being nice to their neighbors, do you? You don't think they all felt, at one time or another, that theirs was a nation touched by God, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti monster, do you?
We have, on paper, on of the best political systems ever created.
It has one of the single most beautiful set of laws ever set down by a group of founding fathers, who recognized a very important fact of life. Life changes. So it was very important that the constitution can be changed. Government for the people, by the people. The only thing holding us back at the moment... is The People.
We have walked on the moon. We have created New York. (Yes, there are cities that compare or exceed, but... um... how long have Paris and London been around, and still not considered to top New York City?) Rock and Roll cam from us. True it evolved from other things dating all the way back to the stone age, but so does Jazz. There is no other form of uniquely distinctive music styles that tops Rock and Roll for sheer world wide popularity, and don't tell me otherwise because on this forum, only Kirk has come close to seeing as much of the world as I have.
We are a leader in culture. We are a leader in the arts. We are a leader in the sciences.
I do not dispute all of this seems to be slipping through our complacent fingers as time progresses. We may have simply finished our run. Time for someone else to be the great empire for awhile. Could even be a natural cycle.
But do not ever assume that because we're loud or obnoxious, that we here in America do not also have something to crow about.
Rant over.
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Post by Anders on Jul 31, 2009 15:14:12 GMT -8
Anyone who doesn't think that America is Special, hasn't been paying attention. No. Seriously. Forget the culture, forget the politics, forget the odd vague imperial notion or three... You don't think England, France, Germany Japan, Russia, or China all got to where they are by being nice to their neighbors, do you? You don't think they all felt, at one time or another, that theirs was a nation touched by God, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti monster, do you? We have, on paper, on of the best political systems ever created. It has one of the single most beautiful set of laws ever set down by a group of founding fathers, who recognized a very important fact of life. Life changes. So it was very important that the constitution can be changed. Government for the people, by the people. The only thing holding us back at the moment... is The People. We have walked on the moon. We have created New York. (Yes, there are cities that compare or exceed, but... um... how long have Paris and London been around, and still not considered to top New York City?) Rock and Roll cam from us. True it evolved from other things dating all the way back to the stone age, but so does Jazz. There is no other form of uniquely distinctive music styles that tops Rock and Roll for sheer world wide popularity, and don't tell me otherwise because on this forum, only Kirk has come close to seeing as much of the world as I have. We are a leader in culture. We are a leader in the arts. We are a leader in the sciences. I do not dispute all of this seems to be slipping through our complacent fingers as time progresses. We may have simply finished our run. Time for someone else to be the great empire for awhile. Could even be a natural cycle. But do not ever assume that because we're loud or obnoxious, that we here in America do not also have something to crow about. Rant over. Okay Jard, I really don't understand either what you're getting at or how your post/rant even makes sense. We're supposed to accept that America actually is special because other countries have believed themselves to be? This is what you're saying, but perhaps you mean something else? We're supposed to forget about culture and politics, yet the examples you bring up are mainly about culture and politics. And the claim that you have one of the best political systems, on paper or not, is only true if the best political systems include every Western democracy and you're somewhere near the bottom of that pile. Above Italy, but that's about it. Your constitution is much, much harder to change than those of most other countries (AFAIK - I may be misinformed here, but that's my impression). Money plays a much, much bigger role in who gets elected in the US than in any other democracy, and coupled with the de facto two-party system this lets the people with the money dictate the choices the people have in the elections - those who even bother to vote. It's possible that it's the people holding you back, but what is a nation but its people? Yes, the US is a leader in many fields, I do not in any way challenge that view. But that's a question of quantity. Being Special in the way I was talking about - Chosen by God, given a Manifest Destiny, standing above and beyond other nations - is a qualitative question. That's giving the US a different kind of status, using a different measure for that one country than for all others. That's the kind of nationalism I'm talking about. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jul 31, 2009 23:20:02 GMT -8
Little bit of the old Walrus himself. Anyone who doesn't think that Rome is Special, hasn't been paying attention. No. Seriously. Forget the culture, forget the politics, forget the odd vague imperial notion or three... You don't think Britannia, Gaul, Germania, Helvetica, Macedonia, or China all got to where they are by being nice to their neighbors, do you? You don't think they all felt, at one time or another, that theirs was a nation touched by Yahwe, Atum-Re, or the Flying Spaghetti monster, do you? We have, on paper, on of the best political systems ever created. It has one of the single most beautiful set of laws ever set down by a group of founding fathers, who recognized a very important fact of life. Life changes. So it was very important that the constitution can be changed. Government for the people, by the people. The only thing holding us back at the moment... is The People. We have walked on the moon. We have created Rome. (Yes, there are cities that compare or exceed, but... um... how long have Lutetia and Londinum been around, and still not considered to top Rome?) Rock and Roll came from us. True it evolved from other things dating all the way back to the stone age, but so does Jazz. There is no other form of uniquely distinctive music styles that tops Rock and Roll for sheer world wide popularity, and don't tell me otherwise because on this forum, only Pompey has come close to seeing as much of the world as I have. We are a leader in culture. We are a leader in the arts. We are a leader in the sciences. I do not dispute all of this seems to be slipping through our complacent fingers as time progresses. We may have simply finished our run. Time for someone else to be the great empire for awhile. Could even be a natural cycle. But do not ever assume that because we're loud or obnoxious, that we here in Rome do not also have something to crow about. Rant over. Fixed. |
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Post by Anders on Aug 1, 2009 2:18:46 GMT -8
Just in case my last post seems overly belligerent I want to stress that I'm not ragging on the US as a nation. I'm talking about the attitude of many Americans (as particularly evident in US public discourse) that the US somehow stands apart from other (by implication lesser) nations.
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