Elections'08 Thread

[K-Box]

Sept 23, 2008 21:33:41 GMT -8 Anders said:

I'd think that a little annoyance would be a better alternative than current reality, but maybe we have different tolerances there.

Absolutely, but when it comes to dealing with the real-world end of winning back voters and changing things for the better, it does liberals no goddamn good to wall themselves up into echo-chamber fantasy-lands, where the like-minded spend all their time circle-jerking each other's opinions, because ... well, because then, we might as well be neo-cons.

Sept 23, 2008 21:33:41 GMT -8 Anders said:

For a while now, you've been overusing and misusing this word and it's getting a little annoying. Just a friendly nudge from a fellow verbal ticcer.

Must be listening to too many Joe Biden speeches.

Problem being, in this case, that it's (almost) literally true.

Dowd rose to fame purely on the "strength" of her coverage of the Monica Lewnsky case, and pretty much every other journalist who's profiled her has described her obsession with mentioning Bill Clinton's penis as obsessive, if not downright pathological.

Indeed, a quick trawl through The New York Times online archives reveals that, of 1247 articles written by Dowd, 621 make mention of the Clinton penis.

[K-Box]

So, who's the latest member of the "liberal media" to suggest that McCain is less ready than Obama to become president?

George F. Will.

Yeah.

Not exactly a left-winger or a Democratic Party supporter, that one.

Here's what he had to say about McCain's response to our recent financial hiccup.

Try and guess if it's good news for McCain.
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McCain Loses His Head
By George F. Will

"The queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said without even looking around."

-- "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"

Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."

To read the Journal's details about the depths of McCain's shallowness on the subject of Cox's chairmanship, see "McCain's Scapegoat" (Sept. 19). Then consider McCain's characteristic accusation that Cox "has betrayed the public's trust."

Perhaps an old antagonism is involved in McCain's fact-free slander. His most conspicuous economic adviser is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who previously headed the Congressional Budget Office. There he was an impediment to conservatives, including then-Rep. Cox, who, as chairman of the Republican Policy Committee, persistently tried and generally failed to enlist CBO support for "dynamic scoring" that would estimate the economic growth effects of proposed tax cuts.

In any case, McCain's smear -- that Cox "betrayed the public's trust" -- is a harbinger of a McCain presidency. For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are "corrupt" or "betray the public's trust," two categories that seem to be exhaustive -- there are no other people. McCain's Manichaean worldview drove him to his signature legislative achievement, the McCain-Feingold law's restrictions on campaigning. Today, his campaign is creatively finding interstices in laws intended to restrict campaign giving and spending. (For details, see The Post of Sept. 17; and the New York Times of Sept. 19.)

By a Gresham's Law of political discourse, McCain's Queen of Hearts intervention in the opaque financial crisis overshadowed a solid conservative complaint from the Republican Study Committee, chaired by Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the RSC decried the improvised torrent of bailouts as a "dangerous and unmistakable precedent for the federal government both to be looked to and indeed relied upon to save private sector companies from the consequences of their poor economic decisions." This letter, listing just $650 billion of the perhaps more than $1 trillion in new federal exposures to risk, was sent while McCain's campaign, characteristically substituting vehemence for coherence, was airing an ad warning that Obama favors "massive government, billions in spending increases."

The political left always aims to expand the permeation of economic life by politics. Today, the efficient means to that end is government control of capital. So, is not McCain's party now conducting the most leftist administration in American history? The New Deal never acted so precipitously on such a scale. Treasury Secretary Paulson, asked about conservative complaints that his rescue program amounts to socialism, said, essentially: This is not socialism, this is necessary. That non sequitur might be politically necessary, but remember that government control of capital is government control of capitalism. Does McCain have qualms about this, or only quarrels?

On "60 Minutes" Sunday evening, McCain, saying "this may sound a little unusual," said that he would like to replace Cox with Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic attorney general of New York who is the son of former governor Mario Cuomo. McCain explained that Cuomo has "respect" and "prestige" and could "lend some bipartisanship." Conservatives have been warned.

Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.

It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?
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At this point, the only way it could get worse for McCain would be if Ronald Reagan came back from the dead to endorse Obama.

[Anders]

Sept 24, 2008 1:47:15 GMT -8 K-Box said:

Sept 23, 2008 21:33:41 GMT -8 Anders said:

I'd think that a little annoyance would be a better alternative than current reality, but maybe we have different tolerances there.

Absolutely, but when it comes to dealing with the real-world end of winning back voters and changing things for the better, it does liberals no goddamn good to wall themselves up into echo-chamber fantasy-lands, where the like-minded spend all their time circle-jerking each other's opinions, because ... well, because then, we might as well be neo-cons.

Of course, but that doesn't mean that occasionally lending a thought to what the world could be like isn't constructive. To work towards a better world you need a clear view of what that better world is, not only of what it isn't.

Sept 24, 2008 1:47:15 GMT -8 K-Box said:

Problem being, in this case, that it's (almost) literally true.

Well, I'm pretty picky about language, so "almost" doesn't cut it.

[K-Box]

Sept 24, 2008 5:59:19 GMT -8 Anders said:

Of course, but that doesn't mean that occasionally lending a thought to what the world could be like isn't constructive. To work towards a better world you need a clear view of what that better world is, not only of what it isn't.

True, and that's one reason why I still think that Roddenberry's utopian vision of the future, while wildly outdated now, was worthwhile, because it gave us something to shoot for.

Still, while Sorkin's explorations of certain issues were very intelligent, and while Martin Sheen is an excellent actor, I can't help but think that the show would have been better if Sheen had never been cast, and the show had stuck with its original planned format, in which the president would almost never be seen, and the focus would remain almost exclusively on his staff.

Instead, in part because Sheen is such a powerful and charismatic performer, the show often devolved into a celebration of a Mary Sue Democratic President who was basically a combination of the most idealized aspects of Jack Kennedy and Bill Clinton, minus any of their infidelity issues. I could practically hear the fapping of MoveOn.org every time his character appeared onscreen.

[K-Box]

There is no way that Republicans can have an "October surprise" up their sleeves ...



... If they're getting desperate enough to run shit like this in Michigan now:

OLD MEME IS OLD. I mean, come the fuck on. In terms of swaying undecided voters, this is about as pointless an exercise as it would be for Democrats to run ads attacking Bristol Palin. EVERYBODY'S ALREADY HEARD ABOUT THIS SHIT, so trying to remind us about it NOW, MONTHS after it first made the news, makes the Republicans seem like they're just grasping at straws.

In fact, it's so bad that even THIS would actually be a more honest, respectable and effective ad:
__________

BARACK OBAMA IS BLACK

PORN STAR LEXINGTON STEELE IS ALSO BLACK

LEXINGTON STEELE HAS AN 11-INCH-LONG PENIS, AND FUCKS MORE WOMEN THAN YOU EVER WILL

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO WILL MAKE YOUR TINY WHITE PENIS SEEM THAT MUCH MORE SMALL AND PATHETIC BY COMPARISON, OR DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR A WHITE MAN SO OLD THAT HE CAN'T EVEN GET IT UP WITHOUT VIAGRA?

THIS NOVEMBER, CAST YOUR BALLOT FOR JOHN MCCAIN, THE ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION CANDIDATE, TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER ABOUT YOUR OWN INADEQUACIES
__________

See that? See what I just did? I just made a press statement that's simultaneously racist, pandering and brain-breakingly nonsensical, and yet, it's STILL more sensible, persuasive and fair-minded than anything that McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds has ever said in his entire fucking life.

It's getting to the point where even McCain probably wishes that Tucker Bounds would choose to become An Hero, and McCain should know, because McCain is ...



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER, EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT!!!

[Anders]

The problem isn't that the president is an important character, but that Sorkin (and those who followed him) didn't want to explore the sides of the issues they didn't agree with more than superficially. That wouldn't have changed if the president wasn't there as much.

[jessebaker]

On MSNBC now; McCain is now apparently trying to get the first Presidential debate postponed/cancelled because of the current "crisis" with regards to Dems AND Repubs wanting to put safegards/oversight onto Bush's last grand "fuck you" to the working man via a massive bailing out of Wall Street banks that caused the current economic crisis.
-------------------------
Vagina on a stick! Between the refusal to let the media near Palin and this, McCain must be pissing his pants at the thought of having Obama buttfuck him on live tv in a debate.

Things must be really bad for McCain not to want to debate Obama and I hope Obama doesn't let McCain cancel this first debate now that Obama's got McCain by the balls over the economy......

[K-Box]

Did I say McCain was desperate BEFORE?

That was incorrect, because however desperate he may have been before, it's NOTHING compared to how desperate he obviously is NOW.

BREAKING NEWS, FUCKERS:



From The Nation:
__________

John McCain is so overwhelmed by the task of responding to the economic crisis that he wants to suspend the presidential campaign and delay Friday's first debate between the Republican and Democratic nominees for president.

Barack Obama says presidents need to be able to do two things at once.

"Presidents are going to have to deal with more than one thing at a time," said the senator from Illinois

So, while Obama says he and his campaign will work with the McCain camp to advance a proposal by the Democrat to have the two campaigns develop a joint statement on how the crisis can and should be resolved, he still wants to debate.

"I think we should continue to have the debate," Obama told reporters in Florida, arguing that, "It's my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who in 40 days will be responsible for dealing with this mess."

Noting that he was in constant contact with Democrats and Republicans in Washington -- including Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, with who he says he has spoken twice today -- Obama said he was more than willing to go to Washington if it might help advance negotiations on a bipartisan plan.

But, Obama added, both he and McCain have campaign planes that can get to Washington and still make it to Oxford, Mississippi, in time for Friday night's debate.

Indeed, he suggested, if the candidates do go to Washington in order to encourage negotiators, it's probably good for them to leave.

"What I think is important is that we don't suddenly infuse Capitol Hill with presidential politics," said Obama, offering a viewpoint with which few Americans would argue.
__________

At this point, watching John McCain try to regain control of his crashing-and-burning campaign is like seeing Lex Luthor don his Kryptonite armor and completely lose his grip on his shit in public.

[K-Box]

America’s First Reaction: Friday’s McCain-Obama Debate Should Still Be Held On Friday, But Perhaps With New Focus

Immediately after John McCain’s announcement 3 pm ET today, Wednesday 09/24/08, that he was suspending his campaign and seeking to postpone Friday’s schedule presidential debate, SurveyUSA interviewed 1,000 adults nationwide. Key findings:

A majority of Americans say the debate should be held. Just 10% say the debate should be postponed. A sizable percentage of Americans, 36%, think the focus of the debate should be modified to focus more on the economy. 3 of 4 Americans say the presidential campaign should continue. Just 14% say the presidential campaign should be suspended. If Friday’s debate does not take place 46% of Americans say that would be bad for America.

This survey was completed in middle of unprecedented and fast-changing news events. This survey should be viewed as a freeze-frame snapshot of public opinion at a unique moment in American history. Opinions can and should be expected to change as news events unfold. SurveyUSA did not characterize Senator McCain’s comments nor Senator Obama’s comments in any way in the research questionnaire.

Full results here.
__________

The only way McCain could be any more PWND, at this point, would be if he was being eaten by a shark, while a bear was punching him in the face. It's like TRYING to shoot yourself in the foot, and somehow, hitting your own ASS instead.

[K-Box]

David Letterman spent fully nine minutes of last night's show talking about the fact that John McCain cancelled at the last minute.

Try and guess if that's a good thing.

Here's a hint: Letterman spends more than two minutes at the end talking about how McCain cancelled from his show, but is still giving an interview to Katie Couric, also in New York, at almost the exact same time as the taping of his own show.



As much as he jokes, you can tell that Letterman is super fucking pissed, and moreover, his jabs at McCain hit all the harder precisely because he honors the guy's war hero status beforehand, which actually makes McCain's current course of action seem even less presidential.

[K-Box]

And the REAL reason McCain wants to delay his debate with Obama:

McCain Camp: Let's Push Back Biden-Palin Match-Up, Too

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Rigel Anderson Report:

The McCain campaign told ABC News on Wednesday that John McCain wants to postpone Friday's presidential debate until Thursday, Oct. 2.

The Arizona senator would like the vice presidential debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden, which is currently scheduled to take place on Thursday, Oct. 2 in St. Louis, Missouri, to be scheduled for a later unspecified date.

The details about what McCain is seeking, which were provided by a McCain aide who spoke on the condition of anonymity, came a few hours after the Republican presidential candidate announced that he was suspending campaigning so he could return to Washington, D.C., to try to forge a consensus on a financial bailout package.

McCain's public call for a debate delay was rebuffed by Barack Obama who joined fellow Democrats in arguing that a president needs to be able to multi-task.

"I believe that we should continue to have the debate," Obama said in Clearwater Florida. "It's my belief that this is exactly the time when the American people need to hear from the person who, in approximately 40 days, will be responsible for dealing with this mess."
__________

Now, why on Earth would the McCain campaign want to postpone Palin's debate appearance, as well?

Oh, wait ...



Katie Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Sarah Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Katie Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Sarah Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Katie Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Sarah Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

Full transcript: CBS News: One-On-One With Sarah Palin.

Never have the words "you stupid whore" been more justified.

Biden would eat this dumb bitch for breakfast.

[jbhelfrich]

When Katie Couric catches you with your pants down, you know you're incompetent.

[paulpogue]

Instead, in part because Sheen is such a powerful and charismatic performer, the show often devolved into a celebration of a Mary Sue Democratic President who was basically a combination of the most idealized aspects of Jack Kennedy and Bill Clinton, minus any of their infidelity issues. I could practically hear the fapping of MoveOn.org every time his character appeared onscreen.

I have to disagree here, because one of the things I think people forget about "The West Wing" is how the staff is depicted as just barely holding together the most fragile of coalitions, and fuck up on staggeringly huge occasions. Look back over the Sorkin years (hell, the whole thing) and you realize that these guys get their asses kicked and completely blow it as often as they pull it together.

Seriously, think back and try to count all the actual legislative achievements these guys managed to pull off. The biggest thing they pulled off all through the first season was confirming Mendoza.

Admittedly, Bartlet said all the right THINGS we wanted to hear from a president, but this is also a guy who was so scared of actually being a liberal that he came damn near to chickenshitting out of important things when the chips were down. He would have fired the surgeon general for all the wrong reasons if his own daughter hadn't guilted the hell out of him for it. And of course, the entire MS thing was one long nonstop parade of fuckups that was a Wrong Thing the minute it started and didn't get any better the more of their friends they sucked into the vortex.

Hell, even the thing they spent most of the fourth season premiere setting up -- Toby's idea to make college tuition tax deductible -- got thrown out the window when it looked like they were going to lose.

[K-Box]

So, one day later, how does the American public feel about "Debate-Gate"?
__________

America’s 2nd Reaction, Having Slept On It — Friday Debate Should Be Held On Friday

24 hours after John McCain suspended his campaign for president and asked to postpone tomorrow’s (Friday 09/26/08) scheduled presidential debate, SurveyUSA today Thursday 09/25/08 conducted a 2nd nationwide survey, that tracked a number of questions from SurveyUSA’s 1st nationwide survey conducted Wednesday 09/24/08 immediately after McCain’s announcement. Key findings from nationwide 09/25/08 survey of 1,200 adults:

3 of 4 Americans say the Friday debate should be held on Friday.

23% today Thursday say the debate should be postponed, up from 10% yesterday Wednesday.

The movement is primarily among Republicans, who, learning of McCain’s intentions, now align as follows:

37% of Republicans now say the debate should be postponed, up from 14%.

32% of Republicans now say the debate should be held as scheduled, down from 56%.

27% of Republicans now say the debate should held with a focus on the economy, unchanged.

See the interactive tracking graph, here.

3 of 4 Americans say presidential campaigning should continue. Just 16% say presidential campaigning should be suspended, largely unchanged from Wednesday.

60% of Americans have No Confidence in President Bush’s ability to lead during these economic times.

50% have No Confidence in John McCain’s ability to lead during these economic times.

43% have No Confidence in Barack Obama’s ability to lead during these economic times.

Half of Americans are now concerned that the bank whey they have their money will fail.

Henry Paulson and Ben Bernanke remain largely unknown. Alan Greenspan is viewed slightly more favorably than unfavorably.

Caveats:

This survey was completed in middle of unprecedented economic and political turbulence — before agreement had been reached about whether debate would or would not be postponed, before an economic rescue for Wall Street had been announced. This survey should be viewed as a freeze-frame snapshot of public opinion at a unique moment in American history. Opinions can and should be expected to change as news events unfold. There are advantages and disadvantages to research conducted with a short field period.

Full results are here.

[K-Box]

And who's the latest conservative Republican to call bullshit on John McCain?
__________

Huckabee: McCain mistake not to debate

Associated Press
Published Thursday, September 25, 2008

MOBILE, Ala. (AP) - Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said Thursday that Sen. John McCain made a "huge mistake" by even discussing canceling the presidential debate with Sen. Barack Obama.

McCain's campaign has said the Republican wouldn't participate in the Mississippi debate Friday unless there was a consensus on the financial crisis, but Obama still wants the debate to go on.

Huckabee defeated McCain in the Alabama GOP primary in February.

Huckabee said Thursday in Mobile that the people need to hear both candidates. He said that's "far better than heading to Washington" to huddle with senators.

He said the candidates should level with the people about the financial crisis and say the "heart of this is greed."

Huckabee said he still backs McCain's candidacy, but said the Arizona senator should not have put his campaign on hold to deal with the financial crisis on Wall Street. He said a president must be prepared to "deal with the unexpected."

"You can't just say, 'World stop for a moment. I'm going to cancel everything,'" Huckabee said.

Huckabee also was critical of President Bush's handling of the crisis.

He said to lay the $700 billion obligation on the nation "in 24 hours" amounts to "holding the country hostage."

"I just think the American people ought to be screaming their lungs out, saying to Congress, not so fast. That's our money you're giving away," Huckabee said.

He said the burden of the $700 billion relief package will fall on the next generation and those in their teens and 20s.
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What the fuck kind of fucked-up fucking Bizarro World have I woken up in where Mike Fucking Huckabee is talking sense?