|
|
Post by paulpogue on Jul 27, 2009 6:55:09 GMT -8
True enough. And the McFarlane Man Of Miracles mess sure seems to give a lot of precedent for legally using Miracleman-as-God, a distinctly Moore creation.
|
|
|
|
Post by jarddavis on Jul 27, 2009 10:52:13 GMT -8
People are still reading Marvel?
Hmm.
Let's see... suckass material. Check.
Bad characterizations. Check.
Raping of long standing beloved characters due to sheer laziness... check.
"Suprirses" that make absolutely no sense to anyone but Bendis or Quesada...check
Long lines of people willing to complain about all of the above and yet continuing to spend more and more money to ensure Marvel will keep doing it...check.
Drive to make comics that are in a sense eerily similar to Early Image days...check...
Okay. Just making sure I hadn't woken up on Bizarro world this morning.
|
|
|
|
Post by K-Box on Jul 27, 2009 13:01:42 GMT -8
Once again, your flaw is in assuming that the people who post about these comics on this forum actually SPEND MONEY on them, Jard.  |
|
|
|
Post by paulpogue on Jul 27, 2009 13:15:28 GMT -8
People are still reading Marvel? I believe Kirk has posted irrefutable mathematical proof that this is not the case, at least with regards to Spider-Man. Charts and everything! |
|
|
|
Post by jarddavis on Jul 27, 2009 15:17:22 GMT -8
Yes, but mine was funnier, Kirk. ;D
Seriously though. I stopped buying anything Marvel back when OMD came out. Hung up my Marvel shoes for good at end of WWH. The only reason I have any knowledge of what's been going on with Marvel is reading the forum.
I figure, you know, why waste the time and energy?
It's crap. We all know it's crap. And what's more, it's not even remotely fixable, except for maybe a cosmic reboot. (I actually do have a story idea for that, till Star Trek stole it, that is.)
Nah. There are a lot of comics out there worth reading. Spend the time and energy on those.
|
|
|
|
Post by jarddavis on Jul 27, 2009 15:20:01 GMT -8
Yeah, but Paul, by the time anyone realizes just how bad things have gotten at Marvel, it'll be aplying for federal bail out money.
|
|
|
|
Post by paulpogue on Jul 27, 2009 16:33:41 GMT -8
Particularly since numerous people at the top are fully aware of how bad things are and are still willing to ride it out just to spite the fans (cf. numerous Brevoort comments about how BND is going to stick no matter how bad sales get.)
I swear, the Spider-Debacle is starting to prove true every paranoid Jesse Baker fantasy about how much the creators hate the fans and do things just to stick it to the fans and each other.
I think it'd be an interesting exercise, for someone with more time and inclination than myself, to take a bunch of Dan Raspler quotes circa 1994 about how Hal Jordan was never ever ever ever ever coming back, insert "Mary Jane" in Hal's place, and see if it's possible to tell the difference between those and BND-related quotes. Bonus points for finding that panel where Kyle actually looks at the reader and all but says, "Fuck you, I'm here to stay."
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 27, 2009 20:30:34 GMT -8
Yes, but mine was funnier, Kirk. ;D Seriously though. I stopped buying anything Marvel back when OMD came out. Hung up my Marvel shoes for good at end of WWH. The only reason I have any knowledge of what's been going on with Marvel is reading the forum. I figure, you know, why waste the time and energy? It's crap. We all know it's crap. And what's more, it's not even remotely fixable, except for maybe a cosmic reboot. (I actually do have a story idea for that, till Star Trek stole it, that is.) Nah. There are a lot of comics out there worth reading. Spend the time and energy on those. To go back to an earlier topic from this very thread; it's the sports analogy. My brother and uncle are die-hard Toronto Maple Leafs fans. For those of you that don't know, the Toronto Maple Leafs are a professional hockey team...that has not won a national championship in over 40 years...and they haven't even been in the playoffs past the first round in about 15. However this doesn't stop my brother and uncle and thousands and thousands of Leafs fans from speculating, commisserating and bitching in a manner that would put even Jesse Baker to shame. And not to bring up an old wound, but that attitude didn't stop either of us from tearing a strip off each other over the "Star Trek" movie. Michael |
|
|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on Jul 27, 2009 20:33:11 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by jarddavis on Jul 28, 2009 10:40:01 GMT -8
There are some differences in our argument about Star Trek, which actually do bear on this.
For one thing, despite the fact that I didn't like it, Star Trek was successful.
What's going on at Marvel at the moment, isn't.
For another thing, I was discussing one movie in particular, and you were arguing a category of movies altogether. (In this case, Summer Blockbusters) But all of that was purely in regards to artistic merrit.
The Marvel situation is one that is still based on economics, but in a wierd way no one can discern. For instance, because of the effects of the movies, Marvel has made changes to it's comics to conform to the movies. But... in general... the comics appear to be losing money at an period when it's a bad idea to be taking economic risks like that.
So one has to wonder about the method behind the madness. Why go out of your way to continue expending money on something that's losing money, in the middle of a recession.
Because the movies are doing great, let's face it.
Marvel, an entertainment company, not a comic company, is letting these guys do what they want, how they want, because frankly, the publishing arm has finally reach the point where it doesn't really matter anymore.
It's all about the movies.
|
|
|
|
Post by paulpogue on Jul 28, 2009 13:07:59 GMT -8
I find myself wondering if Marvel would have so quickly tried to reverse all the IronDickery if last year's movie hadn't done so well, requiring a shift to more closely reflect the film.
|
|
|
|
Post by jessebaker on Jul 28, 2009 19:45:14 GMT -8
I just think they are just happy the movie did well at all, given the widescale backlash against the character as a result of Civil War. Given that they COMPLETELY misread the political climate at the time, let alone entrusting the entire Civil War storyline to fucking right-wing cocksucker Mark Millar, I'm thinking that they are just lucky that the movie was a big success given that they made Iron Man the most hated character in the Marvel Universe.
Hell I would also wonder, had they known how things would end up backfiring on them, if they would have kicked Millar off the book the moment the massive delays happened and them bringing Brubaker/Epting in to finish the mini-series with the edict to reveal Miriam Sharpe to be Mother Night (Red Skull's telepathic mistress) and Brubaker being ordered to retrofit his death of Captain America storyline to Civil War #4-7 and end with Cap dead, Red Skull exposed as still being alive/working with the Russians, and Iron Man (made a pawn of Miriam/Mother Night) having the out card of being brainwashed for his dickery and having to salvage what he can from the Super-Hero Registration Act in the form of the Initiative/avenging Red Skull (complete with Cap cancelled, the Knauffs kicked off of Iron Man and the Brubaker and Epting moved over to Iron Man to write that book).
|
|
|
|
Post by Anders on Jul 29, 2009 7:44:34 GMT -8
I just think they are just happy the movie did well at all, given the widescale backlash against the character as a result of Civil War. How big a portion of the movie-going public was even aware of Civil War? The people who go to see big-ass kick-splode superhero movies aren't the same people reading comics for the most part. |
|
|
|
Post by jensaltmann on Jul 29, 2009 8:05:38 GMT -8
I just think they are just happy the movie did well at all, given the widescale backlash against the character as a result of Civil War. How big a portion of the movie-going public was even aware of Civil War? The people who go to see big-ass kick-splode superhero movies aren't the same people reading comics for the most part. Civil War sold about 260K - 270K per issue, roundabout. Iron Man made $318.4 million in the US, $585.1 million worldwide. That translates into two-digit million people who saw the movie. About 9 million DVDs were sold, I think in the US only. |
|
|
|
Post by paulpogue on Jul 29, 2009 9:14:50 GMT -8
How big a portion of the movie-going public was even aware of Civil War? The people who go to see big-ass kick-splode superhero movies aren't the same people reading comics for the most part. Civil War sold about 260K - 270K per issue, roundabout. Iron Man made $318.4 million in the US, $585.1 million worldwide. That translates into two-digit million people who saw the movie. About 9 million DVDs were sold, I think in the US only. Yeah, my thought is the sudden move towards redemption had little to do with the CW backlash and more to do with fear of the 10 million moviegoers (who saw a strong, heroic Iron Man overcoming great odds) coming to comic shops to find out more and instead being presented with Mark Millar's Right Wing Funnies. |
|
