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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Oct 31, 2008 14:58:14 GMT -8
Davies has actually gone on the record saying that the great David Warner was one of his early choices for the Doctor, but he was literally afraid that the stress of the nonstop Who work environment would kill him. (Mind you, this is one of the hardest-working men in show business, and someone who survived a James Cameron shoot, so maybe Davies was exaggerating. Pity, though; Warner would make a GREAT Doctor.) He strikes me more as the Master. Possibly because he sounds faintly menacing even when he's playing a nice guy. |
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Post by jessebaker on Oct 31, 2008 15:40:50 GMT -8
That reminds me of what would be a killer combo of sorts as far as recasting the Master and the Doctor: Alan Rickman and David Warner
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Post by paulpogue on Nov 1, 2008 18:50:55 GMT -8
Davies has actually gone on the record saying that the great David Warner was one of his early choices for the Doctor, but he was literally afraid that the stress of the nonstop Who work environment would kill him. (Mind you, this is one of the hardest-working men in show business, and someone who survived a James Cameron shoot, so maybe Davies was exaggerating. Pity, though; Warner would make a GREAT Doctor.) He strikes me more as the Master. Possibly because he sounds faintly menacing even when he's playing a nice guy. David Warner -- the perfect voice of Ra's Al Ghul! -- could read a Shakespearian sonnet and make it sound menacing. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Nov 2, 2008 5:24:32 GMT -8
Especially if he reads it in the original Klingon.
Oh, sorry, that was Christopher Plummer.
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Post by Patty on Nov 9, 2008 9:51:08 GMT -8
Just finished watching THE TENTH PLANET; poor Hartnell did not really get a good sendoff.
Interesting to watch just after viewing SUPERNOVA, a truly enjoyably bad TV movie from 2005. Kit Pedler had it half-right with weather being affected by gravity and electromagnetics, and I don't doubt that Robert Halmi, Jr. and Steven Berman are WHO fans.
Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself. To get back to / get started on "The Doctor By Numbers" review series... do we want those posts in this thread, or in its own thread?
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Post by K-Box on Nov 14, 2008 17:53:14 GMT -8
On the continuing possibility of Paterson Joseph as the Eleventh Doctor:
Aside from assorted snippets of his other work (outside of his minor role in the NuWho Season 1 finale as Rodrick), non-UK Whovians like myself have probably not seen a lot of the rest of his work, not that it would make much difference in being able to accurately anticipate what sort of Doctor he'd make.
After all, before he became the Ninth Doctor, the only two roles I really remembered Christopher Eccleston in were the ones he played in Shallow Grave and 28 Days Later, and while both were well-acted, nothing about them made me think that he would have fit as any incarnation of the Doctor.
I'd imagine that those who knew of David Tennant only from his roles on Blackpool or Casanova might have said the same, and yet, both Tennant and Eccleston have been great Doctors, so in many ways, it's probably simply not possible to predict what type of Doctor any actor would be.
From the little I've seen of him, Joseph seems to me like a capable actor, who would be able to spout extended strings of techno-babble with credible authority, and while it's hardly a scientific assessment, he strikes me as having a performance style that might lend itself better to a harder-edged Doctor, closer to Eccleston's anxious seething than Tennant's contemplative brooding, but really, if he is cast as Eleven, a lot of it is just going to come down to how his incarnation of the Doctor is written.
Which brings us to the elephant in the room.
As an old-school Whovian, I remember well when certain traditionalists balked at the idea of a black Doctor almost by reflex, and while I'm glad to see that such reactions are almost nonexistent within fandom now, the casting of a black actor in the role of the Doctor does bring with it at least a bit of baggage, so let's not patronize one another by pretending that it doesn't.
Is there, then, any real reason why there shouldn't be a black Doctor?
If we're talking about the present or the future, then the answer is an emphatic "no."
No, there's no real reason at all, and the funny thing is, a lot of the credit for this can be laid at the feet of Russell T. Davies, whose significantly problematic portrayals of race have deservedly come under quite a bit of critical scrutiny from fandom, because while we might object to the insensitivities he's shown in his handling of characters such as Mickey Smith and Martha Jones, the fact remains that he's rendered the Whoniverse a much more genuinely multicultural - and, in some ways, arguably even post-racial - universe.
One of the positive legacies of Davies' era as show-runner is that "white" is no longer nearly as much the presumed "default setting" for characters in the Whoniverse, whether major or minor, and perhaps more importantly, interpersonal relationships no longer come as "color-coded" as they did decades ago, since friendships, families and romances have frequently been shown to cross racial and ethnic dividing lines with almost casual ease.
While Davies has certainly made some serious stumbles in his execution, his intent has clearly always been to show that, for the residents of both the modern day and all the years ahead in the Whoniverse, the color of one's skin is simply Not That Big Of A Deal anymore, and while we can debate how far we've actually come in achieving this admirable goal in the real world, within the context of the show's reality, it means that the average denizen of the NuWhoniverse's present or future wouldn't react to the Doctor any differently if he was black or white.
So, as long as he's traveling through time and space within the present or the future, a black Doctor is unlikely to require any extra considerations, in terms of how he's written, when compared to any of the 10 white guys who have preceded him in the role.
Once he starts traveling to the past, though ... yeah, that's when you're gonna start hitting some speed bumps, and while this shouldn't discourage the show from casting Joseph, or any other qualified black actor, as the Doctor, it does mean that the writers are going to have to give some extra thought to how the skin color of the alien stranger is going to cause other characters to react to him.
Pretty much anyone who's ever opened a history book should know that there are a lot of times and places in human history in which being black would make a person Not Welcome, and as we saw in the three Season 3 stories in which Martha traveled back (as opposed to forward) in time, the overwhelming temptation on the part of many writers is to respond to this reality in one of two ways - either find a way to hand-wave it away, or else really hammer it home.
In "The Shakespeare Code," the hand-wave might not have been entirely historically accurate (I'm no expert on the Elizabethan era, so I couldn't say for sure), but it was done deftly and breezily enough that I was willing to buy off on it, especially since the Doctor and Martha's manners and appearances were so obviously out of sync with the era anyway that Martha's race almost seemed like the least of the things that made her stand out.
In "Daleks in Manhattan" and "Evolution of the Daleks," the hand-wave felt much more telegraphed and stilted, not only because the story was trying to acknowledge the harsh inequities of the Depression era while simultaneously insisting that there wouldn't be any racial tensions within the Hooverville community, but also because it made the egregious error of trotting out a Magical Negro in the form of the Hooverville community's leader.
In "Human Nature" and "The Family of Blood," the fact that, hey, you know, white people have indeed been racists in the past was finally confronted head on, but when presented within the context of Martha's unrequited love for the Doctor, it felt ... I don't know, but just wrong.
So, even in a story which attempted to own up to the unfortunate realities of racial relations in the past, the preexisting natures of the characters, as people, resulted in some arguably unintentional, but no less uncomfortable, subtext.
I said all of that so that you'll see where I'm coming from when I say this; when a character like the Doctor - a complete stranger who simply wanders into other people's lives and often behaves in ways that are bound to raise suspicions - happens to look like a black guy, and happens to travel to certain points in the past when people weren't necessarily cool about the mere presence of non-subservient black people just in general, the writers are going to have to execute a tricky balance.
After all, if they go too far in the direction of constantly coming up with contrivances as to why the Doctor wouldn't encounter any racism at all, they run the risk of presenting the view that Racism Wasn't So Bad After All in the past (not a good message to send), and if they overcompensate in the opposite direction, then every episode that's set in the past could wind up amounting to a sledgehammer-subtle refrain of White People Suck (which, hey, is arguably true of plenty of points in human history, except that it does a disservice to the main character, who's not even human, to reduce him to "the black Doctor" in such a way, even if it is motivated by earnestly progressive intentions).
To my mind, the solution is simpler than one might think, and it involves retreating from one of Davies' favorite ways of portraying the Doctor.
Yes, the Doctor is a Time Lord, and yes, he's the Last Son of Krypton the Last of the Time Lords, but instead of using that as an excuse to constantly describe him as "the Lonely God" or a "weeping angel" and have him go all emo over the unbearable twin burdens of being lordly and alone, I say it's time to return to the style of Tom Baker as the Fourth Doctor, and emphasize instead the fact that he's always been more the Ultimate Outsider than anything else, which is especially true now that Gallifrey is gone.
Looking back on Baker's tenure as Four, it strikes me that, except for when UNIT called ahead to let folks know that The Crazy Grinning Ranting Man With The White-Boy Afro, Bugged-Out Eyes And Insanely Long Scarf would be paying them a visit, almost all of Four's adventures began with him stumbling onto the scene of a murder, or some other crime or mystery, and acting like an insulting asshole to everyone around him, while simultaneously insisting to people who had no rational reason whatsoever to trust him that they should do so implicitly (the NuWho Season 4 episode "Midnight" was, in many ways, arguably a deconstruction of that plot template).
If the show were to return the Doctor to his former role as Who The Hell Is This Intruder And Why Shouldn't We Just Kill Him Now, it could simultaneously accommodate and sidestep the impact that his racial appearance as a black man would have in certain points in human history, and moreover, in my opinion, it would also be much more consistent with his original series characterization than the latter-day excesses of Davies' Emo Doctor have become.
I always identified with the Doctor for the fact that he never really fit in anywhere, and regardless of whether the next actor to play him is black, white or whatever, if they bring that trait back to the character, I'll identify with him just as much all over again.
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Post by jensaltmann on Jan 2, 2009 9:17:51 GMT -8
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Post by K-Box on Jan 2, 2009 12:51:27 GMT -8
No shit? Both of them would be excellent choices, actually. Not only is Sean a fun legacy pick, but he's also a compelling actor, although given a lot of his roles, I can't help but think he might be a return to the Christopher Eccleston style of Badass Thug Doctor. Chiwetel, on the other hand, is known for his impressive range. When talk of Paterson Joseph first emerged, Chiwetel was actually named by a lot of fans as a black actor they'd prefer to Paterson as the Doctor. Either way, it'll be interesting. |
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Post by Patty on Jan 2, 2009 16:38:55 GMT -8
Adding grist to the rumour mill... I've heard yips and yaps that Colin Salmon is also up for consideration.
To which I say, they damn well better not, because he's supposed to be committed to the BLAKE'S 7 revival, and I have a LOT of money invested in that.
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Post by K-Box on Jan 2, 2009 16:48:31 GMT -8
Adding grist to the rumour mill... I've heard yips and yaps that Colin Salmon is also up for consideration. To which I say, they damn well better not, because he's supposed to be committed to the BLAKE'S 7 revival, and I have a LOT of money invested in that. I'd say Colin is a bit too cold for Eleven, but then, a) he can do other emotions ("Hello, Doctor Moon"), and b) I would have said the same of Eccleston before NuWho. But, yeah, it feels like he really would be better suited to another franchise - either Blake's Seven, or as the first black James Bond - that's more suited to an aloof, detached personality. |
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 2, 2009 20:09:40 GMT -8
Lost in all of this debate: who's going to be the new companion for Doctor #11?
The cynic in me wonders if we will be seeing TPTB trotting out Sladen and Barrowman (both of whom have spin-offs) being drafted for double-duty as the new Doctor's companions for the entire run of series five, ESPECIALLY if they go the route of having the eleventh Doctor be black.
Having Sladen and Barrowman both doing a full season of Doctor Who, to anchor the series in the wake of hiring a black actor to play the Doctor seems like something BBC would do to keep fan interest high while they settle in the new incarnation of the character and get people used to a black version of the character. It would get people talking and might be the sort of "stealth weapon" to deflect the controversy of a black Doctor by having Jack and Sarah side by side with the Doctor, accepting the change without a second thought, to negate any backlash against the move and to make such a major transition work seemlessly, given that both Jack and Sarah are sort of the Alpha Male/Alpha Female of modern Who Companions.
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 2, 2009 20:23:02 GMT -8
I'd love to see Pertwee or Eifojor, although Joseph still seems like the best choice to mee.
Pertwee is an out-of-left-field pick, but given that his name is being floated by Craig "broke the original Tennant story" McGill, it needs to be taken quite seriously.
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 2, 2009 21:20:21 GMT -8
I'd love to see Pertwee or Eifojor, although Joseph still seems like the best choice to mee. Pertwee is an out-of-left-field pick, but given that his name is being floated by Craig "broke the original Tennant story" McGill, it needs to be taken quite seriously. Which reminds me again for you Paul, who's going to be the 11th Doctor's companion? Or do you think we might be looking forward to an entire season of no companions? |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jan 3, 2009 1:37:26 GMT -8
or as the first black James Bond I don't think many people would have a problem with a black Doctor -- youd shout down anyone who would -- but I remain convinced that audiences would not accept a black James Bond. Not for at least another 50 years. File off the serial number and change the name (heck, make it a spin-off "Agent 005 Donivan Carver") and give him a Bond-type script, and you might have a successful movie. But not as 007 James Bond. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jan 3, 2009 1:42:29 GMT -8
I'd love to see Pertwee or Eifojor, although Joseph still seems like the best choice to mee. Pertwee is an out-of-left-field pick, but given that his name is being floated by Craig "broke the original Tennant story" McGill, it needs to be taken quite seriously. You know, reading this makes me think something, so I Googled Jon Pertwee. Jon:  A picture of Sean is above, so I won't bother C&P'ing it here. There's the family resemblance. Once they cast the younger Pertwee as the Doctor, they could claim that some resurrection accident reset his clock to a rejuvenated 3, giving him another full 10 resurrections -- and recastings. |
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