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Post by paulpogue on Dec 27, 2009 23:36:18 GMT -8
Someone elsewhere -- I forget where -- summed up the problems nicely: "How is it that the Doctor and the Master talking on the phone last time around was ten times more gripping than the two of them going at it with superpowers in an exploding railyard?"
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Post by jensaltmann on Dec 28, 2009 0:44:40 GMT -8
That said, the episode was a huge disappointment and Master's big plan to turn everyone into clones of himself is retarded even by standards of madmen, given how unstable Master is mentally. Wouldn't it be simpler and less silly to have the Master use the gateway/arc to turn humanity into Time Lords without turning them into duplicates of himself? Well, the Master (in this episode, I kept thinking that this was Dr. Horrible as played by Russell Crowe) is insane, so the logic makes sense: if you want to turn humanity into the new Time Lords, why not make them all into the Greatest Time Lord Evah: Yourself? Have you seen the Part 2 preview? It looked to me as if that's excactly what's going on here. Or at least spit-talking Time Lord Bond is going to take that part. |
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Post by K-Box on Dec 28, 2009 0:45:40 GMT -8
Anybody want to take odds on a reboot?
Because word 'round the campfire on the comms is that Davies plans to retcon the entire post-Time War timeline through this story.
Which would fuck over The Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood something fierce, and wouldn't even make any internal sense (see also: the episodes in which the Ninth and Tenth Doctors saved Earth at points in its historic past, including the England of Shakespeare and Dickens, not to mention Pompeii), but at this point, I wouldn't put anything past Davies.
He's gone full-on Anne Rice.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 28, 2009 5:55:45 GMT -8
I don't think so, simply because I've read indications that Smith's character remembers past episodes. Now, it's possible that no-one else will, but that's not a full reboot.
I don't know why people keep calling it "the Master's plan", though. It's more like "the Master's spur of the moment mad idea".
Meanwhile, we have Dalton playing Lord President Sprayer, chewing the scenery like the resurrected Master at an all-you-can eat buffet. In my personal canon, I've decided he's actually channeling BRIAN! BLESSED!
(Honestly, I'm only interested in the Time Lord parts of the finale, just to see if RTD can give them a more useful interpretation for the future.)
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Post by K-Box on Dec 28, 2009 12:45:35 GMT -8
Oh, I don't doubt that the Doctor would remember, but only because I think Davies would want to use his memories to twist the emo knife further - ie. Morrison and Waid's proposed retcon of Superman and Lois' marriage, in which Superman would have remembered, but nobody else would.
And with Lord President Narrator displaying all the naked will to live of a starving man elbowing other people away from a banquet table, my previous prediction of Dalton being Borusa might actually come to pass, considering how obsessed Borusa was with extending his own life.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 28, 2009 14:50:16 GMT -8
And with Lord President Narrator displaying all the naked will to live of a starving man elbowing other people away from a banquet table, my previous prediction of Dalton being Borusa might actually come to pass, considering how obsessed Borusa was with extending his own life. He might as well be. Certainly, giving him a different name offers nothing to the character, and calling him Borusa would be an amusing easter egg for the hardcore fans. OTOH, if they had him regenerate into Pierce Brosnan, I would laugh my head off. ;D |
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Post by K-Box on Dec 28, 2009 16:29:43 GMT -8
It's amazing how many onscreen roles I've seen Dalton in where I think to myself, "You know, he'd make a really good James Bond - oh, wait, never mind ..."
It's kind of like watching Falling Down, where I kept thinking, "Holy shit, this is like Dilbert gone Batman! Who made this film? Because they'd be AWESOME at doing a Batman film! Lemme look it up on Wikipedia OH SHIT THAT'S RIGHT IT WAS JOEL SCHUMACHER WTF WTF WTF NO NO NO GODDAMMIT."
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Post by paulpogue on Dec 28, 2009 18:28:36 GMT -8
I don't think so, simply because I've read indications that Smith's character remembers past episodes. Now, it's possible that no-one else will, but that's not a full reboot. I don't know why people keep calling it "the Master's plan", though. It's more like "the Master's spur of the moment mad idea". Meanwhile, we have Dalton playing Lord President Sprayer, chewing the scenery like the resurrected Master at an all-you-can eat buffet. In my personal canon, I've decided he's actually channeling BRIAN! BLESSED! Speaking of Brians, what the hell does it say that Brian Cox as the Brainy Ood probably gave the most restrained performance of the episode? |
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Post by jensaltmann on Dec 29, 2009 0:39:10 GMT -8
It's amazing how many onscreen roles I've seen Dalton in where I think to myself, "You know, he'd make a really good James Bond - oh, wait, never mind I know I'm a minority, but I think he did. |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 29, 2009 5:47:36 GMT -8
My reply:
I think his problem was his scripts. Living Daylight wasn't bad, but License To Kill was just hideous.
Jens' bit:
He had better scripts than Roger Moore did. I think the problem was that at the time, they wanted to head in a more serious direction (essentially towards what Daniel Craig is now doing), but didn't dare to stray as far from the Roger Moore Bonds as they did when they decided to do a full reboot.
Pierce Brosnan had the same problem: the scripts he got were no better than the later Roger Moore Bond scripts.
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Post by jensaltmann on Dec 30, 2009 9:12:15 GMT -8
Did I click on a wrong icon? Sorry. That was an accident. I'd been wondering why my post wasn't listed as "newest post," but I'd thought the system had just eaten it or something.
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Post by jensaltmann on Jan 2, 2010 2:59:27 GMT -8
"Okay. What have you got for me this time?"
How about the official trailer to Matt Smith's Doctor?
"Trust me. I'm the Doctor."
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Post by K-Box on Jan 2, 2010 4:03:19 GMT -8
Wow, that finale was shit, even by Davies finale standards. At least he usually explains his own MacGuffins by the time he's done. Why was the Ood's development accelerating? Who was the woman in white? Was that really RASSILON, founder of the Time Lords, that Dalton was playing? Who knows! It's not like the story felt the need to tell us!
Oh, and bonus race!fail - even after establishing Martha as being engaged to a DIFFERENT guy, Davies ended the show by PAIRING OFF THE TWO BLACK CHARACTERS.
That being said? I already like the new kid. "I'm a girl!"
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Post by K-Box on Jan 2, 2010 4:10:13 GMT -8
"Okay. What have you got for me this time?" How about the official trailer to Matt Smith's Doctor? "Trust me. I'm the Doctor." Scaly green things are supposed to be Silurians or Sea Devils, btw. |
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Post by lostphrack on Jan 2, 2010 23:28:54 GMT -8
Wow, that was an odd finale. Personally I enjoyed the second half more than the first, but it was a still bit "huh?" and wasn't as good as I had hoped, or as good as any of season finale's that have come before it. The Time Lord stuff didn't do anything for me and everything involving Donna felt a bit blech too. Still, there were some nice moments, like the brief visits at the end which had some nice surprises in it.
Bring on 11 already!
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