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Post by paulpogue on Dec 6, 2008 17:35:42 GMT -8
Comic book historians, break it down for me -- what's the longest that a major, lead character of a book has remained "dead"? 22 years, not including time-travel cameos. Fella named Barry Allen. Good point! Supergirl probably fits in there as well, since aside from a couple of interesting cameos in a Christmas special and PAD's Supergirl, Kara Zor-El NEVER came back. (And the current one is clearly not the one who died in Crisis.) |
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Post by K-Box on Dec 6, 2008 21:19:11 GMT -8
Maybe, but I think too many writers at current Marvel enjoy "evil mass murdering Norman who can get away with ANYTHING" to get rid of him. Bingo. Marvel WANTS evil to win, because they HATE heroism. Indeed, not to get all conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but note that Obama became president (rather than remaining president-elect) two months early in the Marvel Universe, just so he could be blamed for signing off on giving Norman absolute power. For Quesada and company, it's not even about liberalism versus conservatism; they simply want the world to be 100-percent unsalvagably bad. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Dec 6, 2008 21:26:26 GMT -8
Maybe, but I think too many writers at current Marvel enjoy "evil mass murdering Norman who can get away with ANYTHING" to get rid of him. Bingo. Marvel WANTS evil to win, because they HATE heroism. Indeed, not to get all conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but note that Obama became president (rather than remaining president-elect) two months early in the Marvel Universe, just so he could be blamed for signing off on giving Norman absolute power. For Quesada and company, it's not even about liberalism versus conservatism; they simply want the world to be 100-percent unsalvagably bad. Which I maintain is a consequence of having a group of 100% noir writers as your sole source. I mean, if there's no balance, than...yeah, you have current Marvel |
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Post by paulpogue on Dec 7, 2008 7:45:17 GMT -8
Good point. Is there ANYONE left in the major Marvel U roster who can reasonably be called a Good Guy who hasn't completely undermined their own morality in the recent past? The entire pro-registration side, the Illuminati and all the Skrullified heroes are automatically compromised; Cyclops, moral heart of the X-Men, has formed a secret assassination squad; Spider-Man screwed over the entire world by CUTTING A DEAL WITH THE DEVIL; Captain America is dead and replaced by his decidedly morally ambiguous sidekick (although Bucky is at least trying); they seem intent on turning Hawkeye all grim-n-gritty; Herc and Amadeus definitely straddle the moral line; Ben Grimm, overall hero in general, approached Civil War by running away; Thor is in some other realm entirely; and let's not even get started on the Scarlet Witch.
Several of the cosmic heroes, Nova in particular, certainly count, but they virtually exist in their own alternate universe.
Seriously, to find a real hero in the Marvel Universe right now, I think you have to work down the roster all the way to SONGBIRD.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 7, 2008 8:20:56 GMT -8
Hell with that. Are there any heroes on the roster who _enjoy_ being a hero?
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Dec 7, 2008 9:04:30 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm stumped as well.
Just as well that I'm trying to get the hell away from "Big Two" comics.
Because, let's face it, if you replaced "Marvel" and "DC" with "Ford" and "GM", it's basically the same problem: They are making a bad product.
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Post by jarddavis on Dec 7, 2008 12:36:52 GMT -8
Have to disagree with you on that one, Mike.
JSA. Especially with the current Magog storyline being very relevant to this conversation.
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Post by paulpogue on Dec 7, 2008 14:31:04 GMT -8
Other odds:
"Reign in Hell" turns out interesting in the end: 10 percent.
Seriously, how do you put together a comic from the mastermind of "Annihilation," starring the Shadowpact, Zatanna and Zatara, about all-out war in hell between two Satan wannabes, featuring BLACK ALICE RUN AMOK IN THE NETHERWORLD, and still bore me to tears? Me! World's biggest Black Alice obsessive!
I guess it just comes down to the fact that while Keith Giffen does many things very, very, very well, political intrigue is not one of them. Remember that GODAWFUL series with Colleen Doran a while back -- Zodiac, I think it was? Utterly unreadable.
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Post by paulpogue on Dec 10, 2008 14:40:20 GMT -8
Dan DiDio answers many questions that indicate, among other things, the finale of Batman RIP might not suck as much as it seems, if only because it's not the finale. (It passes the plausibility test; the whole ending doesn't feel very Morrison, so the idea that Final Crisis is the real ending makes sense.) Also: Crank up the Jean Paul Valley stats to at least 1 percent, if only because there's a new "Azrael" mini on the way. www.newsarama.com/comics/120810-DiDio-20.html |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 10, 2008 15:12:10 GMT -8
Odds that the new Azrael is Mark Shaw:
75%
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Post by paulpogue on Dec 10, 2008 16:08:43 GMT -8
Odds that anybody remembers that the Illuminati have the Infinity Gems: 10 percent
Seriously, biggest dangling plotline in all of Marvel right now. Early on I was convinced it was part of some grand scheme that would end with the Gems being the Cosmic Power that saves the day, but lately I find myself thinking it was just a one-off story to make the Illuminati seem like badasses. (Seriously, anyone who would retcon the Beyonder into a rogue Inhuman is just not thinking crap through.)
Nope, they're out there in dangler-land and there they shall remain until the next big time writer thinks up a use for them. Which is a shame, because if things were tightly plotted, there's a hell of a good story hidden THERE, too. Consider the Illuminati, holders of the greatest weapons in the universe:
Iron Man: Actively evil, also on the run from EVERYONE
Professor X: Disowned by his own followers, wandering alone, cut off even from his own memories
Black Bolt: Skrull
Namor: Always a little morally iffy, also part of the Evilinati
Doctor Strange: All signs point to a serious power shift involving him before long
Mister Fantastic: Oddly enough, not very compromised at the moment
Hell, so much happens at Marvel these days by ACCIDENT that even in "Guardians of the Galaxy," a reasonably well-put-together book, I'm not so sure that the reunion of nearly the entire Infinity Watch is actually intentional.
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Post by jessebaker on Dec 10, 2008 22:05:12 GMT -8
I'm kind of shocked that DnA and Giffen haven't made an active play to get the Infinity Gems dropped kicked into their sandbox, under the guise that they belong in the Cosmic Marvel line.
Then again, nebulously enough as the entire Infinity Gauntlet issue of "The Illuminati" was timelinewise (IIRC it takes place during the gap between AD and New Avengers starting, and after the end of the first She-Hulk series by Slott), who's to say that the Illuminati haven't already washed their hands of the gems via scattering them back into outer space?
Either that or Loki, the only invitee to Norman's Illuminati counter-group who Norman can't bribe (Doom) or threaten (Hood and Namor) or suck up to (Emma), is going to set up to be playing a long game of his-her's own, to provide Bendis with his own "Final Crisis" storyline as far as Loki getting his-her tranny hands on the Infinity Gems as soon as he-she finds out where they are and turning into Darkseid lite?
(Also, with Emma in Norman's Illuminati and Norman wanting to cuddle up with the X-Men, I have to think we might have a full-scale X-Men/Avengers war coming soon. Which could be the next major X-Over from Marvel, if they decide to slow burn the whole "Dark Reign" thing out.
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Post by jensaltmann on Dec 11, 2008 0:49:40 GMT -8
How would Norman go about threatening Namor?
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Dec 11, 2008 9:27:22 GMT -8
How would Norman go about threatening Namor? Threaten to hold up a mirror? |
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Post by jessebaker on Dec 11, 2008 13:44:59 GMT -8
How would Norman go about threatening Namor? He mentioned the Atlantis sleeper cells that are all over America as his leverage over Namor. |
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