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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jun 2, 2011 7:30:27 GMT -8
And can, potentially, veto. I'm not sure veto power is part of it. Only money. But I'd have to look it up. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jun 2, 2011 7:37:07 GMT -8
And can, potentially, veto. I'm not sure veto power is part of it. Only money. But I'd have to look it up. I haven't followed the case totally, so I don't know what, beyond money, is being haggled about, but if someone owns the rights, that includes the right to say, "Go fuck yourselves." |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jun 2, 2011 7:53:12 GMT -8
I'm not sure veto power is part of it. Only money. But I'd have to look it up. I haven't followed the case totally, so I don't know what, beyond money, is being haggled about, but if someone owns the rights, that includes the right to say, "Go fuck yourselves." Let me check something... Yes, that's true if someone has SOLE copyright. But DC will still share joint copyright for another 2 years (when the Shuster heirs get a shot). I'm pretty sure that means no veto. |
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Post by jensaltmann on Jun 2, 2011 8:36:13 GMT -8
I haven't followed the case totally, so I don't know what, beyond money, is being haggled about, but if someone owns the rights, that includes the right to say, "Go fuck yourselves." Let me check something... Yes, that's true if someone has SOLE copyright. But DC will still share joint copyright for another 2 years (when the Shuster heirs get a shot). I'm pretty sure that means no veto. Or both sides get to veto. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 2, 2011 16:57:22 GMT -8
As far as this goes. I'm of the theory that the Siegel lawsuit is part of it, but as a (small) part of an overall corporate directive from WB on high to homogenize the comics with other multi-media versions and adaptations.
Now of course, that would lead to a complete continuity wipe, but no way Geoff and Grant are gonna let THEIR stories get thrown out. So this is what we're gonna get.
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Post by K-Box on Jun 2, 2011 17:07:15 GMT -8
The problem being that Crisis on Infinite Earths failed right out of the starting gate because only SOME continuity was rebooted, while editorial's pet projects weren't thus leading to exactly the same sort of snarling confusion that supposedly necessitates this current reboot.
Rebooting to fix a reboot is like taking another drink to ward off the symptoms of withdrawal.
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Post by paulpogue on Jun 2, 2011 17:16:11 GMT -8
You know, for years whenever I talk about the rebooted/nonrebooted continuity, I always use the O'Neil stories of the 1970s -- primarily Hard Travelling Heroes and the introduction of Ra's Al Ghul -- as Exhibit A for how Crisis didn't fully pull the trigger. Only just now does it occur to me that it's no coincidence that it was the stories of a powerful DC editor that stuck.
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 2, 2011 17:16:19 GMT -8
Yes, which is why I expect there to be even more problems down the line - their problems, their consequences.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jun 2, 2011 18:33:41 GMT -8
Yes, which is why I expect there to be even more problems down the line - their problems, their consequences. My schadenfreude  |
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Post by jarddavis on Jun 4, 2011 20:42:15 GMT -8
Kirk, seriously. How can you possibly label Crisis as a failure?
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 4, 2011 21:33:38 GMT -8
Kirk, seriously. How can you possibly label Crisis as a failure? ooh! ooh! I've got this one. Because it didn't stick - because there were too many small details that writers ended up having to address, which ended up mortally screwing the continuity even moreso. I.e. Hawkman, the Legion of Superheroes. And because certain favorite stories were simply too beloved or too radioactive to retcon ("Hard travelling Heroes", Teen Titans continuity). And then you had the fact that certain people kept digging up the past and recreating their favorite pre-Crisis stories in order to set the mess up all over again (i.e. Jeph Loeb). |
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Post by K-Box on Jun 4, 2011 23:38:29 GMT -8
Kirk, seriously. How can you possibly label Crisis as a failure? ooh! ooh! I've got this one. Because it didn't stick - because there were too many small details that writers ended up having to address, which ended up mortally screwing the continuity even moreso. I.e. Hawkman, the Legion of Superheroes. And because certain favorite stories were simply too beloved or too radioactive to retcon ("Hard travelling Heroes", Teen Titans continuity). And then you had the fact that certain people kept digging up the past and recreating their favorite pre-Crisis stories in order to set the mess up all over again (i.e. Jeph Loeb). Pretty much all of this, plus the fact that DC has been trying to patch it up since Zero Hour. If a retcon is actually effective, it shouldn't need to be RE-retconned with INCREASING frequency over the years. Quite literally, the last time the Flash's continuity got rebooted was LAST FUCKING YEAR. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 8, 2011 10:10:34 GMT -8
And reading all the news so far, only one conclusion can be reached: This is officially Geoff Johns' DC, no ifs, ands, Grant Morrisons or buts.
It's amazing in way that even makes Bendis and Millar's reshaping of Marvel look tame in comparison.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jun 8, 2011 12:21:46 GMT -8
And reading all the news so far, only one conclusion can be reached: This is officially Geoff Johns' DC, no ifs, ands, Grant Morrisons or buts. The part that irks me the most about this reboot/vamp is that there's really no reason for it other than ego. It's not like readers were confused about continuity (the reason for Crisis) or the last reboot didn't make sense (the reason for Zero Hour). Nobody was saying "I want to get into DC, but the universe is too confusing for me". This is Geoff Johns & Jim Lee putting their stamp on the entire line, for no reason other than they can. This is Brand New D ayC. This is change for short-term sales, not for the benefit of the line in the long term. This is the return of the worst of the Dark Age of Comics. This is HEROES REBORN. And they even brought Leifeld along for the ride.... |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jun 9, 2011 15:24:50 GMT -8
Well, it almost makes a demented kind of sense, if you work with the following logic.
Even though it's been denied that this reboot was due to WB higher-ups demanding more "adaptable" comics, it's still a long sought goal of DC, in order to compete with Marvel's success in the movies.*
So of course, the guy they turn to is naturally going to be Geoff Johns. Why? Because he's had success with adapting the Legion of Superheroes, The Justice Society, Booster Gold and Blue Beetle (with varying degrees of success) on Smallville, and who's "Secret Origin" storyarc is clearly the strongest influence on this summer's Green Lantern film**. So he gets to recast it in his image, in a way that makes the Bendisvengers, Quesada's Spider-Quest, and Millarization look like Assistant Editors month***.
And so you have Johns working his magic with some potentially good, but a fair number of potentially awful reboots. ****
However, what's interesting too see is if Johns retcons his own "Superman: Secret Origins", and by how much. I have some regard for that story, for no other reason than it's the best version of the origin in the comics with respect to a good characterization of Lois Lane *^*, which gives me some modicum of hope.
* - and only in the movies, because when it comes to cartoons or live action drama, DC kicks the high holy hell out of Marvel. Marvel has the Avengers and a few Spidey and X-toons, and Blade: the series. DC has the Diniverse, Legion of Superheroes, The batman, Brave and the Bold, whatever animated Batman series is out next, Smallville, Lois and Clark.
** - and Didio and Johns are praying to the dark gods that that movie doesn't tank
*** - Classic reference! Collect'em all!
**** - by not rebooting everything they are actively blowing their own brains out. It's hilarious in a sad way. And Oh god does the Superman costume redesign make no sense - why does the invulnerable man have armored booties? How does he hide them when he's Clark Kent? and there's no way Ma Kent sewed that number up.
*^* - although nearly every other mass media version of the origin treats her better than any of the comics. Lois and Clark? Better. Smallville? Better. DCAU? Better. The Reeve movies? Mostly better. Just saying.
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