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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 0:28:08 GMT -8
Post by jensaltmann on Sept 24, 2009 0:28:08 GMT -8
Movies only edition.
Which characters would you like to see crossing over? Which movie hero would you like to fight which movie villain?
I saw a movie trailer yesterday which inspired this. I'll put that one up as my first offer.
Ground rules: the cross-over has to make sense. No "Sherlock Holmes vs. James Bond" because the two characters don't exist in the same time period. However, "Sherlock Holmes vs. SPECTRE" would work if you can make a compelling reason for why SPECTRE exists in Sherlock Holmes' time. No time travel allowed, unless it's part of the character's/franchise's movie history. (Which means Star Trek vs. Terminator would be allowed.)
Comic book heroes are allowed if there has been a movie made. However, in all franchises, you need to be specific which version.
For example, if you say Hulk vs. Batman, you need to explain if it's Bana Hulk or Norton Hulk, and if it's Adam West Batman, Burtonverse Batman or Nolanverse Batman. (Note that this makes a difference between simple recasting of a character -- Burtonverse Batman = Keaton, Kilmer, Kloony) and rebooting a franchise.
You can, of course, ponder between reboots. Such as, who is stronger, Bana-Hulk or Norton-Hulk. Who would win in a fight between Nicholson-Joker, Romero-Joker and Ledger-Joker?
What started this idea off: I got my hands on the Danger: Diabolik DVD yesterday, and watched the bonus materials. The trailer presents Diabolik as a character who is kind-of James Bond if he were a James Bond villain. Complete with hidden superscience lair and larger-than-life crimes.
Which made me think that Diabolik would be a perfect match for Classic Bond (Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan = recasting the character, not rebooting the franchise).
Who would win? I'd say that James Bond would foil Diabolik's scheme, possibly by making Eva turn against Diabolik for once, but Diabolik would get away to scheme another day.
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 6:21:40 GMT -8
Post by jkcarrier on Sept 24, 2009 6:21:40 GMT -8
For example, if you say Hulk vs. Batman, you need to explain if it's Bana Hulk or Norton Hulk, and if it's Adam West Batman, Burtonverse Batman or Nolanverse Batman. Adam West Batman beats all versions of Hulk, since he would be equipped with Anti-Gamma Radiation Bat-Spray. ;D How about some same actor - different role face-offs? The Bride (Kill Bill) beats Poison Ivy (Batman & Robin) - Ivy's pheromones don't appear to work on women, and Ms. Kiddo probably has enough sheer willpower to resist anyway. Ted Logan (Bill & Ted) beats Neo (The Matrix) by traveling back in time and convincing him to take the blue pill instead.
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 12:07:34 GMT -8
Post by jessebaker on Sept 24, 2009 12:07:34 GMT -8
Kill Bill Meets the Danial Craig James Bond.
James investigates rumors of a cartel of super-deadly female assassins, leading him to confront Bill and the Deadly Viper Assasin Squad.
I'd also toss in Adam West Batman versus the Heath Ledger Joker. Now THAT would be a showdown of epic proportions as far as the West Batman dealing with a true blue psychopath who has no qualms about taking human life. Toss in the '60s live action Penguin, Catwoman, and Riddler into the mix as well as trying to catch the Ledger Joker because they find his actions to be a disgrace to villainy (what with the carnage and violence).
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 21:02:16 GMT -8
Post by jkcarrier on Sept 24, 2009 21:02:16 GMT -8
I'd also toss in Adam West Batman versus the Heath Ledger Joker. Now THAT would be a showdown of epic proportions It would be interesting to see them trying to one-up each other with their respective abilities to bend the laws of physics and common sense: Joker: "Well, Bats, I'd love to stay and chat, but in the five seconds you were busy picking your nose, I rigged the room with enough explosives to take out half a continent. Say goodnight, Gracie!" Batman: "You poor, deluded clown. What you didn't realize is that rather than picking my nose, I was actually activating the Bat-Mass-Defuser Circuit hidden in the nosepiece of my cowl. Those barrels of nitroglycerin are now as harmless as chicken soup. Incidentally, if you had more chicken soup in your diet, you might have a more pleasant disposition." Joker: "Very clever indeed, my caped friend. But if you'll stand in that precise spot for just one second longer, you'll see I had a backup plan...goddamnit, why isn't that schoolbus running you over?" Batman: "I suspected you might try something like that. I took the precaution of hiding a powerful Bat-Electromagnet beneath the floorboards, which stopped the bus in its tracks. And, as your confederate at the wheel has no doubt noticed, that same magnet is preventing the bullets he's shooting at me from hitting their target. Although judging by the angle of his aim, he'd have a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn, regardless." Joker: "Tell me about it. You just can't get good help nowadays. Did I mention that I captured Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, and Aunt Harriet, and strapped them all to bombs in different parts of the city, and that you only have time to save one of them?" Batman: "I think you'll find, on closer examination, that what you kidnapped were actually lifelike mannequins, equipped with tiny tape-recorders to simulate their voices. Needless to say, they are also filled with Bat-Flame-Retardant Foam, which will prevent your incendiary bombs from doing any large-scale damage." Joker: "Oh for fuck's sake. Who the hell are you, Jesus Christ?" Batman: "To use your own crude vernacular, Joker -- I'm the goddamn Batman."
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 21:29:49 GMT -8
Post by K-Box on Sept 24, 2009 21:29:49 GMT -8
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 21:42:51 GMT -8
Post by Anders on Sept 24, 2009 21:42:51 GMT -8
Hahaha! That was great. However, it also highlights one of the problems with an exercise like this: within their respective universes, the protagonists always win. To make it really interesting you have to do like in Jesse's other example and pit two sets of protagonists against each other. (BTW, this reminded me of the excellent Planetary one-shot where they encounter different versions of Batman.)
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 22:56:21 GMT -8
Post by jensaltmann on Sept 24, 2009 22:56:21 GMT -8
Hahaha! That was great. However, it also highlights one of the problems with an exercise like this: within their respective universes, the protagonists always win. To make it really interesting you have to do like in Jesse's other example and pit two sets of protagonists against each other. (BTW, this reminded me of the excellent Planetary one-shot where they encounter different versions of Batman.) I agree, that West vs. Ledger skit was the BEST EVER. While I don't really feel the need to introduce a "matching two protagonists against each other" (that will come automatically, as we've seen), I would like to say that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should the idea involve any variant of "... and then they team up and fight the real threat." Now I need to sit down and work out how a meeting of the three versions of Batman would go. (Come to think, it only now occurs to me that the Nicholson Joker would be a perfect foil for the Adam West Batman. He'd fit right in.)
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Versus
Sept 24, 2009 23:06:49 GMT -8
Post by K-Box on Sept 24, 2009 23:06:49 GMT -8
I'm thirding the praise for West/Ledger. J.K. Carrier struck Comedy Gold with that one.
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Versus
Sept 25, 2009 0:08:49 GMT -8
Post by jessebaker on Sept 25, 2009 0:08:49 GMT -8
JK goes for the easy laugh though; what appeals to me in particular about a West/Ledger Batman/Joker face-off would be the utter polar nature of the two's portrayals.
West's Batman is the embodiment of the uber-goody two shoes Batman. He's a purity sue who truly believes in justice and fair play and lives in a world where crime is tame and the only people who die are henchmen and even then, their deaths are freak accidents.
Ledger's Joker on the other hand is chaos incarnate, a literal devil incarnate who exists mainly to drag humanity down into the moral sewer with him just to prove to himself that the concept of "righteous good" is a lie as far as people being breakable pawns that can defiled and turned into monsters (see Joker's role in turning Harvey Dent into Two-Face).
As such, you'd have a massive showdown of epic proportions with Ledger's Joker and West's Batman, with the Ledger Joker committing every atrocity he can think up in the name of making West's Batman give into the chaos that the Joker lives. To make Batman kill him or do something that would destroy Batman's crystal clear moral purity. And on the other hand, you'd have the West Batman trying to hold onto his moral high ground while at the same time, knowin that the Joker wants him to break his moral code to the point of committing mass murder and worse just to see how far off the Moral Event Horizon he can go before Batman snaps. And worse, knowing full well that the Joker truly GETS Batman and the underlying madness at the root for why Bruce Wayne dresses up as a super-hero every night to fight crime and shamelessly uses that to his advantage as far as taunting Batman about why he's Batman. -----------------------------------
Batman: It's over Joker! Your finished!
Joker: No, I think we've just gotten started.
Batman: The police are outside. You'll never get away with the money...
Joker (holding a gym bag with money in it): This?
(Joker pours the money out of the bag onto a pile on the floor, then pulls out a matchbook from his pocket)
Joker: This was never about the money I stole (lights the match and drops it onto the money, which catches fire). I'm not about money or fame or becoming king of Gotham's criminal underworld. I'm after something far more valuable.
Batman: You mean becoming Gotham's most notorious mass murderer?
Joker: No, that's just a happy side-effect. I want to destroy Gotham's virtuous dark knight of justice....
Batman: You'll never kill me....
Joker (laughing): Kill you? Why would I do that? I mean, kill my straight man? Where would my routine be without the one person who understands where I'm coming from...
Batman: Understand? Murder? I do not think so chum!
Joker: The "bad day" scenerio I told your little birdy Robin about as I wailed upon him with my crowbar earlier today. The notion that every single human being, are all just one bad day away from losing our mask of sanity and falling down the deep ravine of freedom that is pure and complete madness.
Batman: That's not true; the average pers...
Joke: You had a bad day once too, didn't you? I mean, look at yourself. Really, dressing up like a dark blue colored bat? In spandex tights and a cape? And for what, fighting crime? I swear, if you weren't so utterly committed to the gag, I'd think you were some kind of garden variety nutball.
Batman: My being Batman has nothing....
Joker: YES IT DOES! What was it? Girlfriend get raped? Brother killed by mob extortionist? Father murdered by a stick-man while on his way home from work? I think SOMETHING had to have happened to make you become the Batman. Just like SOMETHING made me into the Joker....
Batman: Given that you've given four different people four different origin stories, it makes me wonder if you are just an attention craving psychopath who commits the most henious crimes imaginable just for attention. Just like you probably carved that ghoulish grin onto your face for attention!
Joker: Flattery will get you everywhere. But not on the first date. I have a reputation to uphold. Now (pulls a gun on Batman) open wide!
{Batman jumps at Joker and they pound the tar out of each other as Batman overpowers Joker and makes him drop the gun}
Joker (after the last punch to the face)- We are going to have so much fun together! Can't you... see what a perfect pair we are? The Dark Knight and his arch-enemy, the Deadly Dandy, The Thin White Duke of Deat, the Joker! Doing this over and over and over until one of us kills the other....
Batman: I'll never kill you. And I won't (stepping back from the Joker as the cops come in, to arrest Joker) stoop to your level.
Joker: That's my boy! I love a challenge! (Cops take Joker away) We'll have fun! Fun fun fun as Gotham burns!
Commisioner Gordon: My God, people like the Joker make me glad we have the death penalty.
Batman: That would be what the Joker wants Commissioner.
Commissioner Gordon: You can't be serious Batman. He's a murderer! The poster child for capital punishment!
Batman: The Joker never outright said it, but on some level he wants to die. And in that death, he'll have his revenge...
Commissioner Gordon: What are you getting at?
Batman: More than anything, Joker wants the world around him to suffer like he suffers, in misery and devoid of light and hope. He kills innocent men, women, and children to turn those who wish to capture him for his crimes into murderers as well, by inflaming their outrage to untold of levels. If anything, the only way to truly punish someone like the Joker is to keep them imprisoned for life, so that they will have to face their horrific actions every day that they live.
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Versus
Sept 25, 2009 1:15:47 GMT -8
Post by jensaltmann on Sept 25, 2009 1:15:47 GMT -8
{Batman jumps at Joker and they pound the tar out of each other as Batman overpowers Joker and makes him drop the gun} I think that's too any other Batman, rather than Adam West Batman. Once Joker gets Adam West Batman that far, he's won. See, the thing with Adam West Batman is, he only beats up on henchmen. For the big guys, he has some bizarre Bat-Gadget that he whips out to save the day. Or some really bizarre coincidence helps him out. I think your idea of what Ledger-Joker would do to West-Batman is pretty close to the character, but I don't think you have West-Batman right. (I don't have any specific better ideas right now, though.) Edit to add: there's two things that should be considered for such an encounter, though: a) Ledger-Joker's brand of insanity is so far outside of West-Batman's range of experience that West-Batman might be completely overwhelmed by it. To the point where he wouldn't know what to do. b) The other way around fits as well, which is what JK did, and what worked so well: West-Batman's MO is so bizarre that Ledger-Joker wouldn't have clue number one about how to deal with it.
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Versus
Sept 25, 2009 7:15:32 GMT -8
Post by Anders on Sept 25, 2009 7:15:32 GMT -8
I don't think it's out of West-Batman's character to bat (hah!) the gun out of the Joker's hand, at which point the Joker might jump him.
Your other points stand, though. I don't remember much of the West-Batman shows (they aired here when I was something like 10-12, I think, making it... God, 25+ years ago) but I don't think the villains there were that much into killing, even the nearly proverbial (and strangely impersonal, horrifying though it is) poisoning the water mains scenario. But someone who remembers better can correct me on that.
The one thing I would change in Jesse's write-up (which was great, BTW) is Batman's final conclusion: the way to punish the Joker isn't to make him live with his horrific deeds, but to make him live and see that not everyone is like him; that there are people who go through utter horror and come out better.
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Versus
Sept 25, 2009 10:07:38 GMT -8
Post by jensaltmann on Sept 25, 2009 10:07:38 GMT -8
I don't think it's out of West-Batman's character to bat (hah!) the gun out of the Joker's hand, at which point the Joker might jump him. What bothered me was Jesse's description that "Batman jumps the Joker and they pound the tar out of each other." West-Batman would bat the gun out of Joker's hand, true, but Jesse's description sounds simply too physical and violent for West-Batman. West-Batman would consider it a victory for the Joker if he reacted that emotionally to the Joker's taunts. One of the West-Batman attributes that I remember clearly is that he was above such things, he was "too good and pure" for such an emotional reaction.
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Versus
Sept 25, 2009 14:22:00 GMT -8
Post by Anders on Sept 25, 2009 14:22:00 GMT -8
Fair enough.
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Versus
Sept 26, 2009 7:16:56 GMT -8
Post by michaelpaciocco on Sept 26, 2009 7:16:56 GMT -8
In continuing with the complete madness of
Christopher Reeve Superman vs. Adam West Batman - Fuck "The Dark Knight Returns" - lets see how Mr. "I have a Bat-Device for any occassion EVER" deals with "I can spin the Earth backwards and reverse time"
Demolition Man vs. Robocop - you know, there's nothing explicit in either movie that says that the fauxtopia of SanAngeles can't exist on the same Earth as Delta City and Old Detroit. Hell, it's entirely possible that San Angeles is some kind of bizarre OCP social experiment.
OK, I just want this one to see Murphy, the basic good cop who got screwed but still tries to be a good cop, go up against the avatar of reactionarism that is Sly's Demolition Man. And beat the tar out of him. For several days.
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Versus
Sept 26, 2009 14:12:34 GMT -8
Post by jensaltmann on Sept 26, 2009 14:12:34 GMT -8
Demolition Man vs. Robocop - you know, there's nothing explicit in either movie that says that the fauxtopia of SanAngeles can't exist on the same Earth as Delta City and Old Detroit. Hell, it's entirely possible that San Angeles is some kind of bizarre OCP social experiment. When I watched Demolition Man (again and again and again -- I love that one almost as much as I love RoboCop), it seemed to me as if the California government had effectively seceded from the US. So your scenario is plausible. I suspect, though, that your interest is more in the inevitable catfight between our two heroes' partners -- Sandra Bullock vs. Nancy Allen.
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