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Post by paulpogue on Nov 23, 2009 11:02:45 GMT -8
It drives me nuts that his logic is impeccable: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaTq95CYqCwI think what's maddening about the Twilight series isn't that 12-year-old girls en masse are digging something lame; tweens have ALWAYS dug lame stuff, and we can directly blame Danny Bonaduce on them. It's more that they're digging it REALLY EN MASSE and infecting pop culture with it. But I can't argue with the logic that Twilight is essentially a gateway drug, and if we're all very lucky, in less than a decade the Team Edward kids will be hordes of Lestat-loving college students with a penchant for gothery and craziness. Also, as an adult who unapologetically uses "frak" in casual conversation, I don't think I can hold any kind of moral superiority high ground when condemning "Twilight" ... |
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Post by K-Box on Nov 23, 2009 22:41:01 GMT -8
Except for the fact that Twilight is so screamingly misogynistic that it makes even the worst of superhero comics look progressive by comparison.
I'm sorry, but no, this is bullshit; Stephenie Meyer is basically programming an entire generation of young women to become Nicole Brown Simpsons in the making, by portraying a shit-scary abusive relationship as the ideal romance.
Yes, Michael Bay is a talentless hack asshole whose filmmaking is at least as wretched as Meyer's writing, but no boy walks out of one of his movies mistakenly thinking that they've learned anything about how to behave or how the real world works.
By contrast, Meyer - by her own admission - is basically peddling her creepy-ass passive-aggresively sexualized Mormonism in the guise of fantasy, and I've literally lost count of the number of women I've encountered, both young AND old, who will actually state flat-out that they see Edward and Bella's relationship as something to strive for in their own lives.
At the risk of going Manichean, this is beyond differences in taste, or turning one's nose up snobbishly at material for the masses - this is, to my mind, a clear divide between good and evil, and if you're tolerating the ever-increasing popularity of a story that sells the supernatural version of Ike and Tina Turner as The Ultimate True Love, then you're not on the side of good.
For fuck's sake, even The Fountainhead was marginally less fucking vile than Twilight, because while Rand treated the rape of Dominique Francon as the opening act of her OTP with Howard Roark, even Dominique was somewhat more independent, intelligent and strong-willed than fucking Bella Swan.
If I really believed that this shit was what a majority of women actually wanted, I would have even less respect for the female gender as a whole than Dave Sim.
This is one of those cases where we need to say, "If this is what the mainstream wants, then not only is the mainstream objectively morally wrong, but it shouldn't be allowed to get what it wants."
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Post by K-Box on Nov 23, 2009 22:44:19 GMT -8
Of course, given Kevin Smith's well-documented issues with the female gender, I shouldn't be surprised that he would be blind to that particular nuance.
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Post by Anders on Nov 24, 2009 11:21:19 GMT -8
But I can't argue with the logic that Twilight is essentially a gateway drug, and if we're all very lucky, in less than a decade the Team Edward kids will be hordes of Lestat-loving college students with a penchant for gothery and craziness. Because so many women in their late teens or early twenties cling to the fantasies they had when they were twelve.  |
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Post by jessebaker on Nov 24, 2009 14:14:05 GMT -8
But I can't argue with the logic that Twilight is essentially a gateway drug, and if we're all very lucky, in less than a decade the Team Edward kids will be hordes of Lestat-loving college students with a penchant for gothery and craziness. Because so many women in their late teens or early twenties cling to the fantasies they had when they were twelve. Never under-estimate the delusional power of women when it comes to love. Especially those who believe the bull that is pop culture's concept of TWU LUV..... |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Nov 24, 2009 15:50:49 GMT -8
OK, I'm going to be the buzzkiller here by mentioning a couple little points;
1) People have an infinite capacity for holding internal bullshit contradictions
2) People who don't fall for 1) are the ones who can get past programming of any sort.
Of course, my bias (having gone through Roman Catholic indoctrination and 14 years of the so-called "school system" of the same name) might be showing, but you know what? Fuck it, it's all bullshit - people can figure shit out for themselves, and they can eventually grow a brain and break "programming"
My own long held perspective is that if they can read, they can make their own goddamned choices, and if they happen to choose the one I disagree with? Well, you just keep showing them the evidence until they either put it together or you lose them, and that people with that level of ability to reject reality aren't going to do anyone much good in the real world.
Michael
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Post by Anders on Nov 24, 2009 22:55:29 GMT -8
Never under-estimate the delusional power of women when it comes to love. Especially those who believe the bull that is pop culture's concept of TWU LUV..... You mean like with guys and sex, especially those who believe in the bull that is porn?  |
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