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Post by jessebaker on Jan 14, 2009 21:57:54 GMT -8
After DC Comics and Grant Morrison went up and down and sideways telling people that they were not killing off Bruce Wayne, just having him being incapacitated in some manner while they run a sales ploy of storyline in terms of having a "new" Batman running around, they up and kill Batman in the newest issue of Final Crisis (FC #6).
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Post by K-Box on Jan 14, 2009 22:51:38 GMT -8
Even on scans_daily, the reaction is a disgusted "meh." And this is what Morrison and DiDio hath wrought ... we're so burned out on raging against them that we simply no longer care. This is pretty much going to be the end of Morrison's mainstream comics career for the forseeable future, and given the quality of his writing lately, I say good fucking riddance. If his head went any further up his own fucking ass at this point, he'd be legally required to change his name to Chuck Austen.
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 14, 2009 23:19:54 GMT -8
Even at his worst, Morrison is still better than Millar and Bendis or Slott.
That said, with the rumor floating around that Morrison's coming back to the book later this year with Quitely, DC would be best advice to just give Morrison All-Star Batman and Robin and let him and Frank toil away on that book.
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Post by lostphrack on Jan 15, 2009 2:53:24 GMT -8
One of the forums I frequent has been yapping their asses off over this. Personally I don't really care though.
It's kind of odd, I've got a weird pseudo interest in everything Morrison's been doing lately. It's something I've enjoyed following through various forums and blogs and all that, but it's not something I could really see myself putting down money on for some reason.
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jan 15, 2009 6:00:15 GMT -8
I think it's because no one, absolutely NO ONE, believes that DC Comics is going to KILL their number one character (hey, I'm a superman fan, but even I acknowledge that Batman brings them the CASH like no one else).
This isn't even "The Death of Captain America" because really, Cap isn't the, oh, what's the term, WORLDWIDE RECOGNIZED ICON that BATMAN is. There is absolutely no way this will stick.
Morrison loves pulling this kind of crap where what we see isn't necessarily what happens. I'm sure there will be a "too clever by half" explanation in FC#7 or somewhere down the road that will take care of all this.
It's because most rational people think that even Didio at his worst won't kill the goose that's laying the gold eggs. Especially considering the last "egg" was a movie that made HALF A BILLION DOLLARS AND MIGHT WIN A GODDAMN OSCAR.
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 15, 2009 7:16:10 GMT -8
Not only does nobody buy the idea that Bats is really dead, I'm not sure he'll stay dead even through the first five pages of Final Crisis #6. People are talking like this is the last issue, but there's one to go, and a LOT has been set up that isn't in play yet. The big buildup that Barry Allen has been working on in particular hasn't even been addressed yet; they run off with a secret plan to destroy Darkseid; in the very next scene, Bats kills Darkseid. Hell, I don't even think DARKSEID is dead yet.
As for Bats, the solution that will probably happen is already in play. FAR from absolute, even in comic book logic. The oldest rule is "If there's no body, they're not dead." The second-oldest rule is "If there is a body, follow the chain of custody; anytime that body is out of your sight for a millisecond, have doubts."
Batman faces Darkseid. They shoot each other; Batman gets nailed by the Omega Effect without even bothering to try to dodge. (Does that sound like that Bats we know? Only if he has another plan ...)
We see Batman in the instant the Omega Effect hits -- but crucially, we do not see him destroyed.
At some point offscreen either simultaneously or afterwards, Superman arrives on-scene. We don't know exactly what happens, but it's worth noting that at the time, Superman is wielding the DCU equivalent of the goddamn INFINITY GAUNTLET. Superman travels to the site of the battle, carrying a fried "Batman" body. To be continued.
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Post by K-Box on Jan 15, 2009 11:12:20 GMT -8
Paul,
The problem with your explanations here is that, even coming at it from a relatively sympathetic position toward Morrison, you've given me absolutely no reason to like or care about this story.
Morrison's storytelling is 100-percent devoid of any worthwhile aspects now, and it's happened for the exact same reasons as it did with Bendis; he's bought into all of the unconditional approval offered by his legions of ass-kissing fanboys.
If you don't slam the shit out of a creator for their mistakes, all you are doing is enabling them to be an asshole.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 15, 2009 11:17:46 GMT -8
Honestly, why _should_ I care? In an industry where characters can be resurrected with the flimsiest excuses possible (hey, Harry!) a major franchise like Batman isn't going stay dead long.
I like FC more than Kirk does, but it's not going to rank as a modern classic.
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 15, 2009 11:19:24 GMT -8
If you don't slam the shit out of a creator for their mistakes, all you are doing is enabling them to be an asshole. Or, y'know, you could NOT READ IT. ;D |
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Post by jarddavis on Jan 15, 2009 12:01:53 GMT -8
FC should be considered an Abysmal Failure at this point.
No, seriously.
For one thing, the actual issues of the title itself are hard to follow. Sorry, it is. Part of the problem being the fact that once again, the series requires an in depth knowledge of the New Gods in order to make any sense, and no one has given a fuck about the New Gods since Jack Kirby died, or even before, except a select few.
Crisis on Infinite Earths changed the DC Universe completely. It had long lasting effects by the 1st, second and third issues. IC did that to some extent. FC hasn't even come remotely close. No one believes Batman's Dead, or will, because, well, it's Batman.
Additionally, one has to wonder if maybe FC wasn't Didio, Morrison, Waid and Ross's attempt to bring back all the old silver age characters they loved, but few other people did. Hal Jordan. Barry Allen.
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Post by lostphrack on Jan 15, 2009 14:44:25 GMT -8
Not only does nobody buy the idea that Bats is really dead, I'm not sure he'll stay dead even through the first five pages of Final Crisis #6. People are talking like this is the last issue, but there's one to go, and a LOT has been set up that isn't in play yet. The big buildup that Barry Allen has been working on in particular hasn't even been addressed yet; they run off with a secret plan to destroy Darkseid; in the very next scene, Bats kills Darkseid. Hell, I don't even think DARKSEID is dead yet. As for Bats, the solution that will probably happen is already in play. FAR from absolute, even in comic book logic. The oldest rule is "If there's no body, they're not dead." The second-oldest rule is "If there is a body, follow the chain of custody; anytime that body is out of your sight for a millisecond, have doubts." Batman faces Darkseid. They shoot each other; Batman gets nailed by the Omega Effect without even bothering to try to dodge. (Does that sound like that Bats we know? Only if he has another plan ...) We see Batman in the instant the Omega Effect hits -- but crucially, we do not see him destroyed. At some point offscreen either simultaneously or afterwards, Superman arrives on-scene. We don't know exactly what happens, but it's worth noting that at the time, Superman is wielding the DCU equivalent of the goddamn INFINITY GAUNTLET. Superman travels to the site of the battle, carrying a fried "Batman" body. To be continued. Nah. That's not it. It's the Omega Sanction, different variation. It basically traps the victim inside a never ending cycle of repeatedly shittier lives. From what I hear it first turned up in Seven Soldiers when Darkseid zapped Mister Miracle with it, but he managed to escape annnnd.. so will Bats. |
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 15, 2009 14:47:41 GMT -8
Paul, The problem with your explanations here is that, even coming at it from a relatively sympathetic position toward Morrison, you've given me absolutely no reason to like or care about this story. Morrison's storytelling is 100-percent devoid of any worthwhile aspects now, and it's happened for the exact same reasons as it did with Bendis; he's bought into all of the unconditional approval offered by his legions of ass-kissing fanboys. If you don't slam the shit out of a creator for their mistakes, all you are doing is enabling them to be an asshole. Well, I'm certainly not trying to give anyone a reason to like or care for this story -- more like trying to answer Jesse's original question of "Why doesn't anybody care about Batman dying?" I'll freely admit that I like FC a lot better than most, and it's a hell of a lot better than Grant's run on Batman, but I also recognize its flaws. The biggest difference I see between FC and failures like Secret Invasion is that FC -- from a storytelling point of view -- takes enormous risks with the narrative. As it happens, about three-quarters of those stunts fail -- Grant's love of supercompression doesn't really work on a giant-scale story like this, but it's interesting to see him try nonetheless. Bendis and Millar's storytelling do a good job of ACTING like they're taking risks, but in reality playing it as safe as possible. I'd also argue that it's far too early to dig Morrison's grave yet. FC and Batman are indicative of a possible downward slide, but the glorious final issues of All-Star Superman weren't THAT long ago. |
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Post by K-Box on Jan 15, 2009 15:29:10 GMT -8
I'd also argue that it's far too early to dig Morrison's grave yet. FC and Batman are indicative of a possible downward slide, but the glorious final issues of All-Star Superman weren't THAT long ago. I must be the only person on Earth who hated everything about All-Star Superman that everyone else loved. It reminded me of all the reasons that I quit ALL comics at the age of eight, and didn't start buying them again until college, not in the least because, at this point, between Mark Millar, Grant Morrison and Bryan Singer, any writer who wants to portray Superman as Jesus But Better needs to be beaten to death with a baseball bat. Then again - as a literary character - I hate Jesus, too, so your mileage may vary. Still, it's sad to me that GARTH FUCKING ENNIS gets Superman better than any of his supposed fan creators, because in Hitman, Garth nailed it in one: "You're the ultimate American immigrant success story. If you can be an American, anyone can." The one line is more powerful to me than TEN THOUSAND lines from Luthor, seeing things from Superman's perspective in ASS, about how OMG NOBLE AND PURE AND OPTIMISTIC AND HOPEFUL Superman is. |
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 16, 2009 17:40:03 GMT -8
New odds: The two streaks of light that hit Batman when the Omega Effect was fired? NOT the Omega Effect, but Barry Allen and Wally West, Flashes of two worlds, saving the day.
And the body Superman is carrying is either Darkseid or Boss Dark Side from earlier in the series.
75 percent.
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 17, 2009 0:08:46 GMT -8
Got to disagree Paul.
I have to think Batman's shooting Darkseid won't be the thing that kills him/beats Darkseid for the victory. It's got to be Barry Allen, under the crackhead notion that having Barry single-handedly OWNING Darkseid's ass in a manner similar to Superman or Orion's semi-annual beating the shit out of Darkseid will somehow get people interested in Barry again*.
*I still think, especially given the foreshadowing that Barry will be PISSED OFF at the world and his enemies in particular when he comes back for good that was presented in "Final Crisis Rogue's Revenge", that Barry's new gimmick will be him being an asskicking bad-ass when he comes back. And what better way to establish Barry as an asskicker than having him kick Darkseid's ass while Superman and the rest of the DCU watches?
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