|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on May 28, 2011 17:48:44 GMT -8
Although, on reflection, Lois and Clark did provide a few really good moments. #1 - oh dear god this will never ever stop being funny, and it's a credit to Teri Hatcher's comedic timing she gets the reaction just right www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Nov7vSkmU#2 - can't find a video of it, but there's a scene later in this episode, and to me, the definitive statement on Clark/Superman (and aside, and I must always say this: Fuck you on this one Quentin Tarrantino). "Superman is what I can do. Clark is who I am." #3 - This gets the nod for being the first time in another medium that we got Lois seeing through the disguise - let us all hope that this trend continues, because you know what? Yeah, the Triangle does deserve to die, once and for all. youtu.be/R7mQ8cvuFBwWill Smallville have moments that stick out like that? There's a few I could think of (i.e. "I am the Villain of the story!")...so again, I figure it's a wash. |
|
|
|
Post by Mario Di Giacomo on May 28, 2011 18:07:11 GMT -8
If you define "comic book readers" as "people who exclusively buy Marvel/DC", then yes, yes they are Yes, I should have made the distinction between "people who read comics" and "comic book geeks". Up until very recently, I fit in the latter category  |
|
|
|
Post by Mario Di Giacomo on May 28, 2011 18:08:50 GMT -8
Although, on reflection, Lois and Clark did provide a few really good moments. #1 - oh dear god this will never ever stop being funny, and it's a credit to Teri Hatcher's comedic timing she gets the reaction just right www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Nov7vSkmUAs soon as I read "Lois and Clark did provide a few really good moments." this scene came to mind. I actually think L&C did a decent job all told, the mess with the wedding aside. |
|
|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on May 28, 2011 18:11:14 GMT -8
yeah, it's best if you try really fricking hard to forget the "Frog eating clones" and the first few eps of the last season.
And I wouldn't even call them "Comic book geeks" as much as "Corporate Superhero Zombies" - I'm sorry, but if your tastes are restricted to the pablum DC and Marvel are pumping out, I don't even think "Geek" or "Nerd" are negative enough labels.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mario Di Giacomo on May 28, 2011 18:25:49 GMT -8
I don't even think "Geek" or "Nerd" are negative enough labels. Who said "geek" was a negative? Remember the name of my blog. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on May 28, 2011 18:34:56 GMT -8
I don't. Hence why I think a more negative label needs to be applied to people who read only modern DC/Marvel output.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anders on May 28, 2011 23:41:26 GMT -8
Just asking the question shows that you're head and shoulders above the average reader.
Most people don't keep track of writers. They care about the characters, and the actors if it's a movie, but writers and directors are for those who are genuinely interested. The average Spiderman reader reads "Spiderman stories", not "Spiderman stories by writer X" - sure, he may think one story is better than another, but that doesn't mean he'll make the connection to the writer, and, more importantly, what makes a story good for him may not be what makes it good for you. Not everyone cares about consistent characterization, tight plotting or novel stories; many just want to read about Spidey beating up a bad guy while throwing quips and being harassed by Jonah (or whatever their favorite part of Spiderman is) or they read Spiderman because they like the character and what to know what happens next.
Elitist? Yeah, probably, but that doesn't make it wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by jensaltmann on May 28, 2011 23:59:52 GMT -8
Well, it's not like anyone else was ever going to use it again. I guess they got it cheap - possibly fishing it out of Bryan Singer's dumpster I imagine. Smallville has always been a show that wears its low budget on its sleeve. That's the one thing that made me smile about the Man of Steel reporting so far: allegedly, Zach Snyder had his Superman candidates screen-test in the Christopher Reeve suit. |
|
|
|
Post by jensaltmann on May 29, 2011 0:04:03 GMT -8
The thing about the Smallville finale is that it really isn't a good Superman story, either. I'm going to snag a chunk of a post I made on Kirk's LJ (which I know you've seen) because I think it's relevant. I agree about the Maggin novelS. Both of them, actually, because I like Miracle Monday as much as I like Last Son of Krypton. |
|
|
|
Post by jensaltmann on May 29, 2011 0:10:46 GMT -8
Superman on Live Action TV has always been....so-so when it comes down to that - see the Superboy TV series and "Lois and Clark". I hold to my opinion that "Smallville" is bog-standard for Superman Live-Action TV, just with more modern effects. I don't think it necessarily deserves the bile it gets. Agreed. I think they tried, and it wasn't entirely their fault that they couldn't overcome the problems. There were some spots that were clearly not thought through in context of the larger mythology -- such as establishing Clark as a secret identity early enough -- but what they did evolved almost organically from the series itself. Which made Clark in the suit actually a break in the series's intrinsic world/logic/mythology. I tried to get into Lois & Clark, but I couldn't. They also did the best they could with the low budget, but I couldn't get used to Superman as a romcom. That was what the first season was, and I was unable to even complete that one. About Adventures of Superboy: when they replaced the lead, I started to like that one. Sure, they crapped all over the comics continuity by putting Clark and the hottest Lana ever into an X-Files-like environment, but dammit if they didn't do the villains just right. At least once they put Gerard Christopher into the suit. |
|
|
|
Post by Anders on May 29, 2011 0:56:34 GMT -8
I enjoyed Lois & Clark, but for me it wasn't really Superman.
Smallville is the same way, except with cooler ideas done worse. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Smallville-hater, but what drove me away from it was mostly how they managed to hit the exact line between being close enough to the original that the winks-and-nods would really work and they could embrace the continuity and being far enough from the original that they could change things around to be new and fresh. As it is they seem to try to have one foot in either camp and that just doesn't work for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mario Di Giacomo on May 29, 2011 3:29:18 GMT -8
I don't. Hence why I think a more negative label needs to be applied to people who read only modern DC/Marvel output. That's where we differ, I guess. I don't direct my ire at the readers (with one exception, which I'll get to), but the writers/editors (and the resigned annoyance at the return of the editorial-driven plot is quite high). Particularly ones who have shown they CAN do a better job (Hickman, I'm looking at you), but either aren't bothering or stopped trying. The exception: Anyone who buys a book for "completeness", or "in case it gets better". THOSE are the ones who need a more pejorative name, IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by Mario Di Giacomo on May 29, 2011 3:32:26 GMT -8
The thing about the Smallville finale is that it really isn't a good Superman story, either. I'm going to snag a chunk of a post I made on Kirk's LJ (which I know you've seen) because I think it's relevant. I agree about the Maggin novelS. Both of them, actually, because I like Miracle Monday as much as I like Last Son of Krypton. Didn't like MM as much. Not sure why... maybe it was because I felt Supes works better in a sci-fi milieu? I really should give it a reread one of these days. I know it's online. |
|
|
|
Post by jensaltmann on May 29, 2011 4:32:52 GMT -8
MM was a bit more fairy-tale like, but that was part of its charm. Plus, I do admit to having a terracentric bias in my superhero reading: I prefer my superheroes to be Earthbound, so all the cosmic stuff in Last Son, while it worked very nicely with and for Silver Age Superman, wasn't completely what I want out of superheroes.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelpaciocco on May 29, 2011 6:05:31 GMT -8
I still haven't been able to get my hands on the Maggin books - still trying to via online used book dealers.
Honestly? I realize I may be in the minority, but I hope that they do update the costume a bit from the Reeve model. Lengthen the cape a bit, maybe make the colour scheme a bit stronger, perhaps along the lines of the DCAU color palette.
I maybe watched one episode of the Superboy TV series - can't even remember it.
Mario - yeah I guess we differ a bit here - because while editorial is part of the problem, I almost don't blame them for catering to the LCD of the existing fandom. And can we add a subsection/extra section of super loathing?: To me, the lowest of the low when it comes to "fans" are those who put the continued existence of corporate superhero comics ahead of creators and their families getting their dues. People who are cheering DC because the courts are allowing stolen documents into admission in the legal battle with the Siegel family need to be put down and shunned - no questions. But I understand it is a question of how much is the comic producers and how much of it is the fans - I choose to hit both of them for their failings.
Anders, I can get why those adaptations don't work for you, I do, but I have to be honest, the mass media adaptations probably had a lot to do with maintaining my interest in Superman over the years.
If I were to chart it:
Initial interest - Late 80s - the Chris Reeve films (Duh!) on VHS
Early 90s - Death/Return of Superman - while I argued with my dad for days on end (I was 12) that we shouldn't get a copy - I had to explain to him, that no, he'd be back, they weren't gonna kill Superman and it was a stunt - I WAS EXPLAINING THIS TO MY FATHER, A GROWN UP PERSON, that we didn't need to do this.
Mid-90s - Then came Lois and Clark - which was a guilty pleasure, but hell, I was a teenager and Teri Hatcher was there and while far from perfect, it had some strong moments.
Then came the Animated Superman stuff, which I think we can all agree was damn good stuff.
Late 90s - in addition to the DCAU, there was Grant Morrison's JLA and especially "DC One Million". I was quite taken with a lot of the early issues of the various remodellings of the Superman franchise by Jeph Loeb, Joe Kelly, Mark Schultz and...I forget who was on "Adventures" at the time. Decent enough work from all, which culminated in "What's so Funny about Truth, Justice and The American Way?" which is a standout Superman story by any measure. Of course, after Lex became President, it went downhill into "our Worlds at War"...
The 2000s - JLU (awesome), All Star Superman (also awesome and timely for me personally), and Smallville held my interest in Superman. Again while not perfect, I don't think it was terrible. Particularly compared to the majority of the comics at the time (Greg Rucka, an otherwise good creator, helped give us...Ruin. That is all). Busiek and Johns did good work, but then....New Krypton, which I do feel is the Superman Franchise's "Clone Saga".
So overall, the way I see Superman? I take bits and pieces from all the media adaptations.
|
|
