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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 30, 2010 5:52:35 GMT -8
Part 1: "Swims Fast, Talks To Fish"  Aquaman is a joke. Despite the fact that the his version of the Super Friends have been off the air for almost THIRTY YEARS, the public perception of him can be summed up by those four words. But many other heroes can be summed up the same way: Wonder Woman: "Blocks bulletss, magic lasso" Batman: "Scary prepared, trusts noone" Green Lantern:"Power Ring, space cop" And some are even simpler: Green Arrow: "Shoots arrows" Flash: "Runs fast" Nobody calls them lame, because the stories are about the characters, not the powers. But Orin has never really had a strong personality, outside of "Angry King", "Deposed King", or "King Who Would Rather Be Adventuring". I think I can improve that. But the first thing I'm going to do is cheat a bit. In my design, Aquaman won't be Orin, King of Atlantis... It'll be his son, Artie Jr. Killing Artie was a stunning short term storyline, but it really marked a turning point for the character. Once a confident hero, he began to be written more and more flawed. And (as B&TB has shown) confident is more fun. But we also don't want to have him ignoring the throne. So my solution is this: After Blackest Night, some of the dead heroes will be brought back. We all expect it, although we don't know who or how. Orin will likely be one of them. But, as part of the mix, what if Artie's soul was somehow attached to the new kid (pictured above)? He'd likely have the powers of both of his parents, and a more cheerful personality (thanks to his youth) allowing for a more B&TB-style portrayal. He'd allow Orin to stay on the throne, and eliminate a serious load of angst. (It's also a nice spin on the classic orange shirt, and it'd be a shame to get rid of it) A brash young hero, with a strong connection to the original. There's really only one word for it: "OUTRAGEOUS!" (I actually forgot about this... thanks for the reminder.) Next time: The problem of Atlantis |
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 30, 2010 8:17:20 GMT -8
"I think I shall call it ... THE TIME AQUAMAN STOPPED SUCKING!"
(Has there EVER been a comic character who was so vastly improved by a case of adaptation decay so advanced that the onscreen version bears nearly no resemblance to any depiction of the character, ever, in the history of comics? Because B&TB looks like it was done by someone who read about Superfriends Aquaman's basic look and powerset on Wikipedia and then just made up the rest themselves from there.)
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 30, 2010 8:33:11 GMT -8
Actually, I prefer the JLU take, but I have reasons for taking this tack (which will be laid out in part 2)
EDIT: And to answer your question...
"Orange socks?"
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 30, 2010 23:02:46 GMT -8
Crap nonwithstanding about how they pointlessly fucked with Aquaman's origin/changed his real name aside, DC should just fucking bite the bullet and not only bring Aquaman back circa the mid/late 90s. Hook hand, bare-chested, beard and long hair, and a take no shit, I'll kick your ass type personality. That was the only period of time that Aquaman had any credibility as a character and really, I'm disappointed DC spent this entire decade running as far as humanly possible from this incarnation of him.
BATB Aquaman is so-so in my book. Interesting take but really can't substain the character outside the show/within the mainstream DCU.
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jan 31, 2010 6:16:17 GMT -8
I'm going to put my Febuary addition up today if that's alright. Well screw it, I started this thread and I can bend the rules as I like WARNING: Canadian Cultural Content to follow  Oy, now here's a screwed up character. You could make the arguement that the characterization has gotten worse and more misogynistic with every successive pair of hands that has touched the character - of course, having Frank Tieri and Chuck Austen in the mix DOES NOT HELP. But what's most important is that I think I've stumbled upon a bit of John Byrne's method when he created these characters, which provides some insight. You see, in effect, the original AF members were meant as borderline racist stereotypes of the regions of Canada they hailed from, as filtered through the lens of his Brittish-Canadian upbringing. Yeah, let that sink in for a bit. OK, now to illustrate. Aurora, as originally intended, was a real stretch of the woman from Quebec stereotype. Quebec is a very different part of a country that is already pretty unique; it's got a strong French traditionalism that it has maintained in a way no other North American French colony has - no creole, and very little assimilation. And this is before you get into the whole "Quebec wants to separate from the rest of Canada" bit, where there are political parties formed EXCLUSIVELY on that ideal - that get its members elected to national parliment. Yeah, just imagine Successionists getting elected to the US Congress - it's kinda like that. So, to an Anglo-Canuck, particularly one with (what I can only assume) a pretty traditional upbringing, people from Quebec must seem pretty odd - at once something very Canadian and very not. Nevermind that in my own dealing with people from Quebec, you do get the sense that they are a little big on double speak (Well, no; it's just that old pre-Revolution FrenchRoman Catholic customs are still in their culture, including strong authoritarianism, but that's in direct conflict over the fact that they rebelled at being ruled by English speakign people for a century before becoming part of Canada, and lingering anti-French bias from the government that existed well into the 1960s). So the idea that a Quebecer, particular a Quebec woman (who have the added Madonna/Whore complex thanks to the already-mentioned super-strong tradtional Catholicism) is borderline schizo isn't hard to see. It's utterly insulting and wrong, but easy to see the origin of. Alright, and now to fix it. Step 1: Goodbye to the Multiple Personalities. For four very important reasons: 1) It's been done to death 2) It's insultingly stupid 3) There's no good way to do it realistically (see every Marvel comic on MPD ever) 4) I think that maybe, just maybe, a government sponsored team of paramilitary peacekeepers should refrain from using people with severe mental issues. Step 2: Adding in new personality traits that make sense. Alright, and now at the risk of adding some cultural stereotyping of my own...here's one short, easy method of giving Jean Marie some real character. So, she's a Roman Catholic raised history teacher in Quebec? The brother of an olympic Skiing champion who has been shamed by his own country because he outed himself (twice - once as a mutant and once as gay). She's a soft separatist. More content The reason why the Separatist party (Bloc Quebecois at the federal level, Parti Quebecois at the Quebec provincial level) is able to win seats at all is that they have powerful financial backers and they are willing to promise the voters more than a federal party that at least has to consider the feelings of people from other provinces. I often joke that the Bloc would vote on a bill to kill everyone in Ontario, so long as Quebec gets what's left. Furthermore, when there are referendums on separation, the separatists (and soft separatists) trot out the idea of something called "sovergnity association" - if you can find two separatists in Quebec who don't share a blood relation or a marriage license and give you the exact same definition of what the hell that is, god bless and keep you. In short, it's like moving out of your parents place, but they still have to pay your bills. And it gets people who wouldn't vote for a hard separation to consider the idea. So, Jean Marie, who faces persecution as a mutant and has had to sit on the sidelined as her brother (whom she does love and care about) has had to endure two major scandals (the questioning of his skiing wins because of his powers, and his outing), has had enough of just sitting back and taking this bullshit from a government that has time and again shown that it will abandon its 'best and brightest' in the name of political correctness. She thinks that the Bloc offers a more even hand (well, they don't, but they won't tell her that, and she's not too keen to investigate the matter fully). And immediately, you have a source of tension between her and the rest of the team, and her and her brother, who at this point simply doesn't care about the idea and would rather avoid the scandal and potential impact on his business venture being an open Quebec Nationalist would entail. (and by the way, I'm retconning out Northstar's past with the FLQ - it's a minor note and and with the FLQ having been out of business for almost 40 years, it no longer meets with the sliding timeline.) |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 31, 2010 6:47:43 GMT -8
Crap nonwithstanding about how they pointlessly fucked with Aquaman's origin/changed his real name aside, DC should just fucking bite the bullet and not only bring Aquaman back circa the mid/late 90s. Hook hand, bare-chested, beard and long hair, and a take no shit, I'll kick your ass type personality. That was the only period of time that Aquaman had any credibility as a character and really, I'm disappointed DC spent this entire decade running as far as humanly possible from this incarnation of him. BATB Aquaman is so-so in my book. Interesting take but really can't substain the character outside the show/within the mainstream DCU. Did you actually READ my piece? I'm actually curious, since both you and Paul have focused on the B&TB parts, and ignored everything else. Because if all I'm going to get is "Someone else did it better" I'm not going to bother continuing. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jan 31, 2010 6:49:13 GMT -8
Crap nonwithstanding about how they pointlessly fucked with Aquaman's origin/changed his real name aside, DC should just fucking bite the bullet and not only bring Aquaman back circa the mid/late 90s. Hook hand, bare-chested, beard and long hair, and a take no shit, I'll kick your ass type personality. That was the only period of time that Aquaman had any credibility as a character and really, I'm disappointed DC spent this entire decade running as far as humanly possible from this incarnation of him. BATB Aquaman is so-so in my book. Interesting take but really can't substain the character outside the show/within the mainstream DCU. Did you actually READ my piece? I'm actually curious, since both you and Paul have focused on the B&TB parts, and ignored everything else. Because if all I'm going to get is "Someone else did it better" I'm not going to bother continuing. I don't watch BTBAB, so this is all news to me - and I like where you're going man, so don't give up. |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Jan 31, 2010 6:55:51 GMT -8
Aside from Prez, Curt Calhoun is the only person in the world she trusts without reservation. He set up everything perfectly. Perhaps his only mistake was the choice of pseudonym, but then, Alice wouldn’t have gotten it anyway. Because Curt Calhoun was the name of someone from much earlier in the Heroic Age. Someone else took the name, though. They took his superhero name, and then his real name. The real Curt Calhoun died some time ago, and the man taking his place and name is better known by a name that inspires almost as much fear as does Black Alice: Prometheus. I really do have to know this now - who is/was Curt Calhoun? |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 31, 2010 7:07:56 GMT -8
Prometheus of the Hybrid (old Titans villains)
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Post by paulpogue on Jan 31, 2010 7:26:21 GMT -8
Crap nonwithstanding about how they pointlessly fucked with Aquaman's origin/changed his real name aside, DC should just fucking bite the bullet and not only bring Aquaman back circa the mid/late 90s. Hook hand, bare-chested, beard and long hair, and a take no shit, I'll kick your ass type personality. That was the only period of time that Aquaman had any credibility as a character and really, I'm disappointed DC spent this entire decade running as far as humanly possible from this incarnation of him. BATB Aquaman is so-so in my book. Interesting take but really can't substain the character outside the show/within the mainstream DCU. Did you actually READ my piece? I'm actually curious, since both you and Paul have focused on the B&TB parts, and ignored everything else. Because if all I'm going to get is "Someone else did it better" I'm not going to bother continuing. Didn't mean to bug you with that -- I liked your piece a lot, but I'm also the king of meandering off-topic, so I apologize. I like your approach if only because Aquaman has become so utterly dour over the last two decades that it needs a fresh new start -- but by the same token, said fresh new start shouldn't be a hard reboot, or something unrecognizable from current continuity (like all the "Sword of Atlantis" business, which I honestly didn't follow for more than a couple of issues.) Turning Aquaman into a legacy character and letting Orin stay sitting on the throne of Atlantis while the kid goes off and has outrageous adventures is a nice way of maneuvering out of the current morass. I'm particularly looking forward to your take on things Aquaman might actually DO, since another problem with the character is a lack of a specific mandate. "Fights underwater threats" doesn't have the same particular focus of, say, "Varsity team that fights the big planet-shattering baddies," "Stays in shadows and protects Gotham," "Works both the streets and the law to improve everyone's lot while delivering lots of left-wing lectures" or "Struggles to live up to Superman's legacy." |
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 31, 2010 7:54:14 GMT -8
I cover a bit of that in the next piece. Maybe I'll take a page from Mike and write it this afternoon.
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Post by jarddavis on Jan 31, 2010 20:38:30 GMT -8
Tangental to the ongoing Aquaman debate...
I want to bring him back to the JL for one reason and one reason only. He's going to kick Barry Allen and Hal Jordan out. And replace them with Wally West and Kyle Reese.
Remember that scene when Jordan comes back and clocks Batman? Picture that again, only with Arthur laying the smacketh down on GL's Candy Ass.
Seriously. I'd love to bring the Morrison era JLA back, with exactly that line up. Kyle and Wally in the League, Barry and Hall off being Solo in the respective Flash and GL titles. And Arthur telling them flat out, "Hey. Guess what. You sucked. You weren't as good as your replacements. Hal, you were an arrogant toerag, who did this wrong, this wrong, and this wrong and I'm not your biggest fan." Smack.
"And Barry, you're just not as good as your replacement. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."
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Post by Mario Di Giacomo on Jan 31, 2010 20:49:56 GMT -8
(psst... Kyle Reese was in TERMINATOR. You mean Kyle Rayner)
Personally, I wouldn't put Orin or Artie in the JLA. But that's all part of Part 2.
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Post by jessebaker on Jan 31, 2010 22:59:12 GMT -8
Now my scenerio:
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The Serpent Society
Basically, go back to basics of what Mark Gruenwald established for the concept: a super-villain trade union consisting of similar themed bad guys (in this case, snake themed villains) led by Sidewinder.
Sidewinder, who has since reformed, decides to rebuild the Serpent Society as a super-hero group in connection with whatever is left of the 50 State Initiative after Seige.
Members include:
Diamondback: team leader. Still close with Captain America and seeks to bring her team towards redemption.
Asp and Black Mamba: Revealed to be lovers. Asp is the super-serious one while Black Mamba is the flirty one.
Constrictor: Same as in Avengers Initiative, though he's kind of bitter that Diamondback is made team leader over him. Has a lot of snarking back and forth with Rachel over this, but still loyal to the team and wanting to do good.
Anaconda (new version): New character who's capable of existing underwater for long periods of time and who can safely swallow objects for safe storage in his stomach (which he barfs up). Ex-jock semi-based on Jared Allen, as far as visual and crazy personality is based on. Likes to make jokes about how he's the only team member who hasn't been arrested/convicted of a crime.
Death Adder: Captured during a sting operation and undergoes extensive surgery to restore his humanity after the Hood used his dark tech to turn him into a freakish monster. Establish a connection between him and Sidewinder (Death Adder was his apprentice and he turned into a ruthless murderer after the mishap in the surgery that gave him his powers robbed him of his voice). Sidewinder seeks to try and reform him. The mysterious brooding dark one of the group.
Rock Python: Black guy with no powers and who's gimmick is that he can throw eggs that shoot out ribbons to restrain people. Make him a gentleman thief-type, hence his non-lethal weapons. The Gambit of the group, as far as being the lady's man.
Cobra: Jack Flagg (who in his first appearance was almost recruited by Cobra to be his successor), who returns to Earth and takes the identity after the original Cobra is found murdered by Mr. Hyde. However, he keeps his Jack Flagg costume, which is recolored to give him snake-colors and let him keep his guns.
Sidewinder: Team Leader, though no longer active in the field.
The group, while publicly known about, does largely top secret missions for the US Government, shutting down villain enclaves that have popped up all over the US. A lot of the themes will involve super-villain culture and the idea of the super-villain in the MU pop culture as something that the disenfranchised connect with. In particular, the idea that a lot of the bad guys that the Serpent Society fights are super-villain teams inspired by the Society, like All-Bird villains or All-Ape group. I'd also toss in stuff like MODOK going after the gang because of the way that they killed him and stuff like the Viper/Madam Hydra vowing to destroy the team as far as her hating the group since she can't control it (which lets them bring back the Serpent Squad, with her loyalist members from Captain America #338-344. Also, the Marauders for the dream Marauders Vs Serpent Society fight I always wanted to see growing up.
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Post by jarddavis on Feb 1, 2010 11:57:43 GMT -8
Did I say Reese? Boy. I have Egg on my face.
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