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Post by paulpogue on Oct 27, 2009 15:40:31 GMT -8
It helped that the new series gave the Daleks a massive Time War power-boost. The Doctor regularly took down Daleks with dynamite in the old days; now conventional weapons don't even slow them down. Heck, in the original appearance One and Ian managed to kill one of them via the power of walking around behind it.
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Post by jessebaker on Oct 27, 2009 21:15:49 GMT -8
The Daleks get a slight pass on the fact that they are from the 60s, plus the fact that "Genesis of the Daleks" did much to make the Daleks a scarier threat via retconning aspects of their origin to make them much more scarier as far as engines of destruction gone amuch as opposed to a race of people mutated by nuclear war.
Terry Nation holding controlling rights to them also probably helped, which meant that the Dalek stories weren't overdone and they didn't suffer from villain decay like the Cybermen and the Master did.
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Post by jensaltmann on Oct 28, 2009 2:57:48 GMT -8
Jesse, do me (and everyone here) a favor: before clicking on "post" please re-erad what you wrote with an eye towards comprehensibility. I have no idea what you're trying to say with the first long sentence in your post (other than that the Daleks were retconned to be scarier).
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Post by jbhelfrich on Oct 28, 2009 21:32:32 GMT -8
I think he means: "The Daleks get a slight pass on the fact that they are from the 60s, (and therefore were created at the height of the BBC's tacky and low budget period) plus the fact that "Genesis of the Daleks" helped make the Daleks a scarier threat by retconning aspects of their origin to make them engines of destruction gone amok as opposed to a race of people mutated by nuclear war. "
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Post by paulpogue on Oct 29, 2009 18:41:57 GMT -8
Almost forgot, possibly my great granddaddy of ideas that shouldn't have worked:
Ruby Rhodd, "The Fifth Element": There is abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING on paper that should have worked about this character. Chris Tucker as an oversexed radio shock jock who's a cross between Howard Stern and Prince? Did I mention he's played by CHRIS TUCKER? And yet I laugh whenever he's on screen and actually think he adds something to the movie. I have no fucking clue why.
For those who might not have been around for this in 1998, I should also add that "The Fifth Element" was shrouded in secrecy during filming, and all we really knew going in was that it was a Blade Runner/Heavy Metal style movie being directed by the director of The Fucking Professional starring Bruce Goddamn Willis and Gary Motherfucking Oldman, with genre legends like Brion James, John Neville and Ian Holm in smaller parts. So we could pretty much infer for sure that this was gonna be some hardcore shit that made Ridley Scott look like Francis Capra.
So ... yeah. Still worked out pretty well, though.
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Post by Anders on Oct 29, 2009 22:51:09 GMT -8
Almost forgot, possibly my great granddaddy of ideas that shouldn't have worked: Ruby Rhodd, "The Fifth Element": There is abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING on paper that should have worked about this character. Chris Tucker as an oversexed radio shock jock who's a cross between Howard Stern and Prince? Did I mention he's played by CHRIS TUCKER? And yet I laugh whenever he's on screen and actually think he adds something to the movie. I have no fucking clue why. Yeah, they manage to take what I thought was something inherently annoying - the fast-talking, cowardly Hollywood black guy stereotype - and make him not annoying. |
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Post by jkcarrier on Oct 30, 2009 6:52:39 GMT -8
He's become such an institution now, it's easy to forget how completely out-of-left-field Spider-Man was originally. A scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek who gets superpowers...and REMAINS a scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek. Where's the wish fulfillment? Where's the power fantasy? Even Stan's boss said it was too weird, it'd never sell. And yet it went on to revolutionize the genre and the industry.
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Post by Anders on Oct 30, 2009 8:30:33 GMT -8
Identification is a powerful force.
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Post by K-Box on Oct 30, 2009 14:33:37 GMT -8
He's become such an institution now, it's easy to forget how completely out-of-left-field Spider-Man was originally. A scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek who gets superpowers...and REMAINS a scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek. Where's the wish fulfillment? Where's the power fantasy? Even Stan's boss said it was too weird, it'd never sell. And yet it went on to revolutionize the genre and the industry. In a lot of ways, Spider-Man has become a cliche, in no small part due to being written by people who don't actually understand him, and who thus take his character to extremes of loserdom. It's now more unique to have a superhero who's NOT, at bare minimum, a neurotic screwup. |
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Post by paulpogue on Oct 30, 2009 19:19:43 GMT -8
He's become such an institution now, it's easy to forget how completely out-of-left-field Spider-Man was originally. A scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek who gets superpowers...and REMAINS a scrawny, broke, socially-awkward geek. Where's the wish fulfillment? Where's the power fantasy? Even Stan's boss said it was too weird, it'd never sell. And yet it went on to revolutionize the genre and the industry. Amazingly, I didn't think of him, but you're right -- he is the very definition of the Idea That Should Not Have Worked. Hell, even Stan Lee, who can barely remember who pencilled which character back in the day, does a pretty good job recounting all the reasons he was told Spidey shouldn't have worked, including the teen character (never before done as a superhero lead) and a creepy theme (Batman works because he's SUPPOSED to be creepy, but identifying with Captain SPIDER? No way!) |
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Post by michaelpaciocco on Nov 7, 2009 10:59:12 GMT -8
OK, I've got a couple of new entries here, one of which has been remarked on before in a completely different context, and one new one all together.
1) The Old Pedo Pervert from the Family Guy:
On a show already full to bursting with controversial stereotypes and characters that should be considered offensive, this guy is on the furthest end of that spectrum. If you get right down to it, the fact that he's had as much to do in the show is just a little disturbing - you really shouldn't even be laughing at the jokes, or even tolerating the character.
So why do they?
My own theory is that he's one of the few characters with a goal, albiet a horrific one, coupled with his age makes him a really bizarre take on an underdog character - and I believe that at this point it's almost an extended prank by MacFarlane et al to see how vile a goal they can fit onto an 'underdog' character before the audience actually wakes up.
2) Empowered.
Oh geez, where to begin with this? The character started out as fetish commission material, and even in her current incarnation, she's hardly someone you'd feel anything but pity for. She's ruled entirely by her insecurities, and her relationships are based on mutual co-dependencies that are...well, a tad weird. Then there's the fact that nearly ALL of the superheroes are the most venal assholes imaginable - moreso than even some of the current Marvel regime. So...why do we care?
On one hand, there is Adam Warren's imagination and unique worldbuilding here - incorporating different elements of fame (nothing new, but it's not the Hollywood star fame, but more akin to lower-tier fad-music fame), different technologies, and hints at interesting histories that can't help but draw you in. On the other, the fact that Emp is often more relatable and likeable than the others help cast her in the underdog role, but just as interesting is that in Warren's vision, he's brought some depth to even some of the assholes to help humanize them (Spooky Sista in particular).
So, thoughts?
Michael
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